60i to 30?

Scott Hamilton · 2009 May 8th, 15:01

So, I was shooting (with HV30) a scene for a feature I've been working on that is being shot in 30p. A few days ago we shot a scene that I was acting in, so I had a friend do some stand in filming for me, but forgot that the camera was set on 60i from filming a hockey game the week before.

Anyways, we shot in the hot weather for a good 3 hours, and didn't realize it was in 60i. Being that it will be hard to get my actors back out there due to a technical error on my part, is there a way to turn 60i footage into 30p? (aside from basic deinterlacing). We are going for a "film look" (aren't we all?!), but went with 30p over 24p, which looks decent enough I think. But 60i just looks too television for me, especially compared with the rest of the film. I'm hoping there is a way to convert 60i into 30p, so that it actually looks like it was shot in 30p (motion blur and all). I have After Effects, and found this tutorial on videocopilot, but I'm not sure if this will do it or not...

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorial...ate_converter/

Any thoughts?

Scott

Rumpelgeist · 2009 May 8th, 15:28

> is there a way to turn 60i footage into 30p?
Yes, deinterlace it.

> aside from basic deinterlacing
Define "basic deinterlacing".

Scott Hamilton · 2009 May 8th, 21:26

I don't know the technical explanation, but to me there is a difference between footage that was shot on 60i then later deinterlaced, and footage that was shot in 30p. 60i deinterlaced footage gets rid of the mice teeth but, to me anyways, still looks like home video or a sitcom, whereas 30p feels a little closer to film (more motion blur). Does anyone else feel that way?

Scott

Scott Hamilton · 2009 May 8th, 21:31

Oh and by basic deinterlacing I just meant dropping a deinterlace filter on it. I was looking for something a little more along the lines of frame rate conversion... forgive my lack of technical knowledge on the subject.

If it helps to see what I mean, try comparing deinterlaced 60i footage with 30p footage on an HDTV, via HDMI. I admit that comparing the two on a computer screen doesn't show a great difference, but the difference really shines through on an HDTV.

Max Lamare · 2009 May 9th, 04:25

Scott, you have 2 accounts now?

Atnas · 2009 May 9th, 13:22

Well, did you set a shutter speed? If you set the same shutter speed and make 60i to 30p there should be almost no difference except the vertical resolution loss. If you let the shutter be automatic I think the HVx0 pics a higher shutter speed. In that case, if you want to simulate a slower shutter in post I only know this plugin capable of doing that.

http://www.revisionfx.com/products/rsmb/

Hope this helps

Scott Hamilton · 2009 May 9th, 14:41

Max, I am a new user. I believe I've seen a Scott Hampton, since I've joined. Maybe I'll change mine to avoid confusion.

Atnas, I think that is what I was looking for. I did not set the shutter speed, so I guess it automatically has a slower shutter for 30p. I didn't ever realize that was the difference I was seeing. Thanks a ton, I will look into the plugin!

Rumpelgeist · 2009 May 9th, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hamilton

I don't know the technical explanation, but to me there is a difference between footage that was shot on 60i then later deinterlaced, and footage that was shot in 30p. 60i deinterlaced footage gets rid of the mice teeth but, to me anyways, still looks like home video or a sitcom, whereas 30p feels a little closer to film (more motion blur). Does anyone else feel that way?

No difference. Motion blur depends on shutter speed as Atnas pointed out.

Video Frank · 2009 May 9th, 19:27

Whenever I record hockey, I use 60i. All of my attempts to record in 30p end up with a stuttering puck.

Scott Hamilton · 2009 May 10th, 12:15

Yeah, I was on 60i for the hockey game...

So I think I've got it figured out. I never thought it made sense that 60i and 30p looked different, when 60i deinterlaced should be the same as 30p. Didn't ever realize that my 30p setting has a different default shutter speed. Thanks!

Max Lamare · 2009 May 10th, 16:42

[QUOTE=Scott Hamilton;213230]Max, I am a new user. I believe I've seen a Scott Hampton, since I've joined. Maybe I'll change mine to avoid confusion.

My mistake.

movielighter · 2009 June 4th, 15:20

I have been able to do this in Vegas 8 after "painfully" seeing the results of dumping 60i footage into a 30p (29.97) project and seeing nothing but shakes and jitters.

Not in front of the video editor right now, but in Vegas you can set the project up BEFORE dopping the footage into the timeline.

Right click on the blank timeline, then properties, then set the frame rate and output standard, there is a pulldown box on the mid right side to select the "deinterlace" option. Do not put anything in here with the 60i footage, edit it, render it, then add it to another timeline to mix with 30p footage. Otherwise pulling "real" 30p footage in this timeline and it will not come out right at all.

* From memory, so might be a little off on where the settings are. Make sure you do not use the same setting on you other projects.

Rumpelgeist · 2009 June 4th, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by movielighter

I have been able to do this in Vegas 8 after "painfully" seeing the results of dumping 60i footage into a 30p (29.97) project and seeing nothing but shakes and jitters.

Vegas has no problems with mixing progressive and interlaced. Just don't forget to set "deinterlace" to "interpolate". Vegas will drop one field from 60i footage, but it will preserve progressive clips as they were.

hepabst · 2009 June 4th, 17:00

If the HV30/40 PF30 is in a 60i rapper the clip says it is 1080i60 when I drop this clip on a 1080p30 timeline the clip is in preview(green line) and has to be rendered is FCP6 de-interlacing the clip and reducing the image quality or is it just changing the clip format without altering the quality of the clip?

movielighter · 2009 June 4th, 21:32

After getting back to the house,

In Vegas 8, with nothing in the timeline, file, "properties" , under "deinterlace method"

See attachment

2009 May 8th, 15:01	#1
Scott Hamilton Valued Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 41	60i to 30? So, I was shooting (with HV30) a scene for a feature I've been working on that is being shot in 30p. A few days ago we shot a scene that I was acting in, so I had a friend do some stand in filming for me, but forgot that the camera was set on 60i from filming a hockey game the week before. Anyways, we shot in the hot weather for a good 3 hours, and didn't realize it was in 60i. Being that it will be hard to get my actors back out there due to a technical error on my part, is there a way to turn 60i footage into 30p? (aside from basic deinterlacing). We are going for a "film look" (aren't we all?!), but went with 30p over 24p, which looks decent enough I think. But 60i just looks too television for me, especially compared with the rest of the film. I'm hoping there is a way to convert 60i into 30p, so that it actually looks like it was shot in 30p (motion blur and all). I have After Effects, and found this tutorial on videocopilot, but I'm not sure if this will do it or not... http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorial...ate_converter/ Any thoughts? Scott

2009 May 9th, 04:25	#5
Max Lamare 13-year old kid giving advice Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: California Posts: 808 Blog Entries: 12	Scott, you have 2 accounts now? __________________ "Knowing is not enough we must apply". "Willing is not enough we must do". Bruce Lee

2009 May 10th, 16:42	#11
Max Lamare 13-year old kid giving advice Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: California Posts: 808 Blog Entries: 12	[QUOTE=Scott Hamilton;213230]Max, I am a new user. I believe I've seen a Scott Hampton, since I've joined. Maybe I'll change mine to avoid confusion. My mistake. __________________ "Knowing is not enough we must apply". "Willing is not enough we must do". Bruce Lee

2009 June 4th, 15:20	#12
movielighter Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 173	60i to 30p = I have felt the pain! I have been able to do this in Vegas 8 after "painfully" seeing the results of dumping 60i footage into a 30p (29.97) project and seeing nothing but shakes and jitters. Not in front of the video editor right now, but in Vegas you can set the project up BEFORE dopping the footage into the timeline. Right click on the blank timeline, then properties, then set the frame rate and output standard, there is a pulldown box on the mid right side to select the "deinterlace" option. Do not put anything in here with the 60i footage, edit it, render it, then add it to another timeline to mix with 30p footage. Otherwise pulling "real" 30p footage in this timeline and it will not come out right at all. * From memory, so might be a little off on where the settings are. Make sure you do not use the same setting on you other projects.

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2009 May 8th, 15:28	#2
Rumpelgeist Formerly Known As "Aramis" Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,686	> is there a way to turn 60i footage into 30p? Yes, deinterlace it. > aside from basic deinterlacing Define "basic deinterlacing".

2009 May 8th, 21:26	#3
Scott Hamilton Valued Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 41	I don't know the technical explanation, but to me there is a difference between footage that was shot on 60i then later deinterlaced, and footage that was shot in 30p. 60i deinterlaced footage gets rid of the mice teeth but, to me anyways, still looks like home video or a sitcom, whereas 30p feels a little closer to film (more motion blur). Does anyone else feel that way? Scott

2009 May 8th, 21:31	#4
Scott Hamilton Valued Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 41	Oh and by basic deinterlacing I just meant dropping a deinterlace filter on it. I was looking for something a little more along the lines of frame rate conversion... forgive my lack of technical knowledge on the subject. If it helps to see what I mean, try comparing deinterlaced 60i footage with 30p footage on an HDTV, via HDMI. I admit that comparing the two on a computer screen doesn't show a great difference, but the difference really shines through on an HDTV.

2009 May 9th, 13:22	#6
Atnas Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Denmark, Haderslev Posts: 150	Well, did you set a shutter speed? If you set the same shutter speed and make 60i to 30p there should be almost no difference except the vertical resolution loss. If you let the shutter be automatic I think the HVx0 pics a higher shutter speed. In that case, if you want to simulate a slower shutter in post I only know this plugin capable of doing that. http://www.revisionfx.com/products/rsmb/ Hope this helps

2009 May 9th, 14:41	#7
Scott Hamilton Valued Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 41	Max, I am a new user. I believe I've seen a Scott Hampton, since I've joined. Maybe I'll change mine to avoid confusion. Atnas, I think that is what I was looking for. I did not set the shutter speed, so I guess it automatically has a slower shutter for 30p. I didn't ever realize that was the difference I was seeing. Thanks a ton, I will look into the plugin!

2009 May 9th, 19:27	#9
Video Frank Forum Mogul Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Near Toronto Posts: 578	Whenever I record hockey, I use 60i. All of my attempts to record in 30p end up with a stuttering puck.

2009 May 10th, 12:15	#10
Scott Hamilton Valued Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 41	Yeah, I was on 60i for the hockey game... So I think I've got it figured out. I never thought it made sense that 60i and 30p looked different, when 60i deinterlaced should be the same as 30p. Didn't ever realize that my 30p setting has a different default shutter speed. Thanks!

2009 June 4th, 17:00	#14
hepabst Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Caldwell, NJ Posts: 149	If the HV30/40 PF30 is in a 60i rapper the clip says it is 1080i60 when I drop this clip on a 1080p30 timeline the clip is in preview(green line) and has to be rendered is FCP6 de-interlacing the clip and reducing the image quality or is it just changing the clip format without altering the quality of the clip?