Do any FILMMAKERS actually use their HV20

[Split Field Diopter]

I am new here. I'm a huge film fan. I believe in the practice of film theory and think all who want to make motion pictures should be versed in all sorts of film history.

My question to all of you is...

Does anyone actually make short/feature/experimental films with their cameras?

I mean, I go through these forums and everyone here has all these decked out cameras. They talk and talk and talk endlessly about the quality or the audio and video pulldowns and this and that. But nobody seems to actually be doing anything with their knowledge (except for the hundred million of you who go outside and use a 35mm adapter to rack focus on some leaves)

I don't say this trying to be mean. I'm asking this because I actually want to see what a camera like this is capable of? Can someone make a feature film in the vein of SHADOWS or FACES or EVIL DEAD or BLOOD SIMPLE or SISTERS or anything that isn't just you sitting in your living room showing me how good your dog looks in HD.

It seems people are more concerned with peaking audio then making a good film.

If you look at Cassavettes' early films (and even his later ones) he didn't care if there was a hair in the gate... or if the audio was too low, or too modulated. he cared about making a passionate film.

I just read a thread on here that when on forever, talking about the differences- pros/cons of external audio recorders. For heaven sakes! Fellini didn't even record audio on set! Get off your computers and go make some movies!

I hope you guys can prove me wrong and point me to some links I can watch...or sites I can buy your movies... that were made with this camera. I want to see what people are doing with this so afforable camera.

If these were made available in 1967, I'm sure we would have a flood of impressive, thought provoking pictures coming from people who before this "level playing field" techonology was invented would have never had a voice.


Let's bring some of this spirit back and stop showing me how shallow you can get your focus on a blade of grass.

[kevinmeyer]

Hey for a Newbie, you quite opinionated!

Doesn't matter though, I tend to agree with you.

I make home movies/family videos of, well, my family, so I dodged your bullet and don't feel the need to worry about any of your rantings

[Split Field Diopter]

Makes perfect sense Kevin-

This in no way applies to you. My brother bought an CANON HD10 for recording his son and his family and he's quite happy with it (he's obsessed with new technologies)

I am pointing my dagger squarely at those who spend thousands of dollars pumping up their cameras and do nothing with them.

I should say assume they do nothing with them. PROVE ME WRONG! I WANT TO SEE YOUR SHORTS/FEATURES!!!

[kevinmeyer]

Sorry forgot to add,

with such a strong post why don't you show us how it's done? walk the walk or is that just bullsh*t talk?

I'm sure lot's of hv20'ers would love to critique something you've shot...

[Split Field Diopter]

I don't own one yet. I have been using a DVX100A and a Canon ZR800. Plus various others.

I'm been all over this site trying to make a decision on what to purchase, going HD.

Here is a site where you can view many of the shorts I've made. They are mostly goofy but (hopefully) funny.

www.povertyrowpicturesltd.blogspot.com

And here is a link to the other serious short I've shot so far. We did it on a DVX100B with nothing but an $80 budget. We shot it in two days. It's in two parts on youtube.com

It is done in the style of a film noir (Joseph H. Lewis or Ulmer)

part one http://youtube.com/watch?v=U9JYOBjT_n4

part two http://youtube.com/watch?v=xcQCiPOoydg&feature=related

I don't care for this short, or any of my for that matter. But I'm trying to put together a better one, in the style of JULES AND JIM meets WHO'S THAT KNOCKING AT MY DOOR meets INLAND EMPIRE meets FACES.

We have much more money and a bigger crew for this. And a much longer and more serious (less pulpy) script. And a much longer time span to make the next one. Hopefully on an HV20/ upgrading from the DVX.

Be as harsh as you'd like, because these all suck.

[threadhanger]

I've had my camera since last July and have yet to make a "movie". I'm still learning though. How long does it take to learn the violin? To become a good writer? To learn a martial art? It takes years. I shoot all the time with my camera and have hundreds of little clips on my computer that I never post. There's a lot to learn......not just with the camera, but with the editing software, with pulldown, encoding, uploading, audio, etc.

Give us another 6 months or so...one of us will upload a masterpiece.

[CycleWriter]

Well, I have spent close to $3k in just the past month on my HV20, accessories and a bunch of DIY stuff related to video. No, I don't make films you or anyone else would want to see, but I make a pretty decent side income doing videography for a high-end contractor. So I guess I can justify my expenses and exuberance for this camera, but I still find your post on the rude side. I mean, what do you care what anyone does with their camera? It could be nothing more than an expensive hobby for some. Hell, I spent more than 15 times what I've got into this camera on motorcycles and gear the past decade alone, but no one is expecting me to go race professionally even if I DO work in the motorcycle industry.

I could care less why others own this camera. The people that make up this forum have given me a tremendous amount of insight, technical expertise and plain old entertainment over the past month and I hope it will continue. I'm appreciative of their contributions regardless of what their video aspirations are.

[threadhanger]

Well, I have spent close to $3k in just the past month on my HV20, accessories and a bunch of DIY stuff related to video. No, I don't make films you or anyone else would want to see, but I make a pretty decent side income doing videography for a high-end contractor. So I guess I can justify my expenses and exuberance for this camera, but I still find your post on the rude side. I mean, what do you care what anyone does with their camera? It could be nothing more than an expensive hobby for some. Hell, I spent more than 15 times what I've got into this camera on motorcycles and gear the past decade alone, but no one is expecting me to go race professionally even if I DO work in the motorcycle industry.

I could care less why others own this camera. The people that make up this forum have given me a tremendous amount of insight, technical expertise and plain old entertainment over the past month and I hope it will continue. I'm appreciative of their contributions regardless of what their video aspirations are.

The part about "decent side income doing videography" made my ears perk up. Would you mind elaborating? What accessories do you have for your HV20?

[Split Field Diopter]

I work in television as well. And I don't expect people who shoot wedding and commercials to chime in here.

This is obviously not aimed at you.

And I too, obviously have spent a lot of time on this forum, gathering info on this camera and really enjoy that there is a community where one can simply sit down and get help.

But... I'm guessing... more than 70% of these people are in the game to makes films in one respect or another.

All I'm saying, in a rude manner I suppose, is lets see what this thing can do.

People who grew up in the 50's only wish they could make movies the way we so easily do nowadays, but it seems like nobody is taking advantage.

[tcindie]

I'm in the middle of production on a film, we had to put it on hold over the winter and will be finishing up principle photography in May. Depending how long the post process takes, I should have something to show sometime in July. But it also depends on the director too, because he might not want to release anything online for a while. I believe we're looking to do a festival run, and probably a dvd.

[CycleWriter]

The part about "decent side income doing videography" made my ears perk up. Would you mind elaborating? What accessories do you have for your HV20?

Prepare to be bored!
http://vimeo.com/890157

I document fixtures and such before the drywall goes up. These are mansion-level homes that have sophisticated plumbing, electrical, heating and air systems. Even Halon fire extinguishing systems. The last video I did saved the contractor over $25k in repair costs when a pipe failed.

As for my kit, check out my previous posts. I have posted something about almost all of it.

[Split Field Diopter]

I'm in the middle of production on a film, we had to put it on hold over the winter and will be finishing up principle photography in May. Depending how long the post process takes, I should have something to show sometime in July. But it also depends on the director too, because he might not want to release anything online for a while. I believe we're looking to do a festival run, and probably a dvd.

I concede. This is a very good point.

After all this commotion, all I'm saying is, let's make some fun/scary/dramtic/though-provoking pictures so I don't have to decide between PROM NIGHT REMAKE or NORBIT on saturday nights....

[kevinmeyer]

Yip, my main use is captureing family moments, but I want the best so that 20 years from now it must still look good, hence why I am interested in finding the best way to render etc, and learn all these technicalities.

I enjoy video and yes, and having read "DV Rebels guide to making killer action movies" and would love to try and make a b grade action short, but I don't have the time or friends who are interested. I mean come on, surely somebody can make something at least on par with the cheesy b-grade action movies in the ilk of the Lorenzo Lamass action movies (I call him Lorenzo Lame-arse), or even the really cheesy b-grade horrors.

I'd love to take a look at your stuff but unfortunately here in the third world we don't have the bandwidth, so I'll just have to read comments posted by other hv20'ers.

I beleive your challenge/comments are all very well and balanced and people should not feel offended but use it as a challenge to actually do something "meaningful" if they are interested in filmmaking.

Hopefully I will be able to make some money in the near future and will be doing a promo video for my wifes company, from there hopefully I can get a few other bit jobs to make some money with my camera but they will be company promos, training videos etc.

[Split Field Diopter]

Yip, my main use is captureing family moments, but I want the best so that 20 years from now it must still look good, hence why I am interested in finding the best way to render etc, and learn all these technicalities.

I enjoy video and yes, and having read "DV Rebels guide to making killer action movies" and would love to try and make a b grade action short, but I don't have the time or friends who are interested. I mean come on, surely somebody can make something at least on par with the cheesy b-grade action movies in the ilk of the Lorenzo Lamass action movies (I call him Lorenzo Lame-arse), or even the really cheesy b-grade horrors.

I'd love to take a look at your stuff but unfortunately here in the third world we don't have the bandwidth, so I'll just have to read comments posted by other hv20'ers.

I beleive your challenge/comments are all very well and balanced and people should not feel offended but use it as a challenge to actually do something "meaningful" if they are interested in filmmaking.

Hopefully I will be able to make some money in the near future and will be doing a promo video for my wifes company, from there hopefully I can get a few other bit jobs to make some money with my camera but they will be company promos, training videos etc.

One word for this guy.... rational. Thanks for seeing it my way!

[koolpenguin89]

I dont know why you said your not expecting wedding videographers and people who make comercials to chime in. You said you want to see what this cam can do, well thats what ALOT of people are doing with it. I think that your guestimate of 70% oh HV20 owners wanting to use it for filmmaking (i might have misunderstood, but i think thats what you meant) is WAY off. Also, very few people who actually are making films do it to put bread on the table. Freelance videography is huge! I am 16 years old, and in the 3 months that ive owned my HV20, ive filmed and edited several videos for paying clients. I was recently asked why i dont post more of my work. The answer is simple: I dont own the video, the client does, and most of my clients dont give me premition to use their video for whatever i want.

Now, if your posts are directed more towards the indie filmmakers and not HV20 owners in general, then i may agree with you that their aren't enough shorts (and NO features that i know of) filmed on the HV20....yet. Click on my signature, it will take you to the main page of the HD Shorts film competition that im hosting here. All of these shorts will be opened to the public on may 2nd, so i suggest you check back then to see some films shot on the HV20 (their also might be 1 or 2 shot on HG10s, but thats a long story).

Dylan

[koolpenguin89]

Oh, and i forgot to add that i dont think you were being rude. I think that it came off that wau because in one of your first posts ever on this forum, you decided (with goog intentions) to tell all of us that we are not doing anything. I understood what you meant, but for your sake, i suggest wording it better next time, that way no one takes it the wrong way

Dylan

[Split Field Diopter]

I suppose the title of my post was wrong. It should have read...

"Do any FILMMAKERS actually use their HV20."

I work in TV and see PLENTY of people who make a living doing videography. In fact, 15% of the people I work with do considering they shoot news for a living.

I overall agree with your post.

I just want to see the enthusiastic nature of the DVX crowd with this camera. I remember a few years ago when the DVX came out, every independent filmmaker almost wet his/her pants.

Now it just seems everyone is more interested in decking out their rig.


I mean, come on....

If your shooting a wedding video, do you really need this?

http://www.cinevate.com/images/hv20d.jpg

probably not. But I guess maybe you do? What do I know. I love the grainy look of my ZR800! It makes your feel dirty just looking at the image.

Different strokes for different blokes I suppose.

Once again. I didn't mean to start an uproar. I just want FILMMAKERS to stop worrying so much about every little technical aspect and just make something for christ sakes. UNLESS YOUR KUBRICK. Then you can worry about whatever the hell you want.

[threadhanger]

Prepare to be bored!
http://vimeo.com/890157

I document fixtures and such before the drywall goes up. These are mansion-level homes that have sophisticated plumbing, electrical, heating and air systems. Even Halon fire extinguishing systems. The last video I did saved the contractor over $25k in repair costs when a pipe failed.

As for my kit, check out my previous posts. I have posted something about almost all of it.

I went to check out the video on Vimeo but the the video wouldn't play. More maintence probably. I favored it for later viewing.

Drywalls and fixtures, eh? That is pretty boring. I guess you don't whip outthe 35 adapter on those.

Still though, if it would help pay the bills I'd set up my tripod to watch paint dry if someone paid me. Maybe there should be a section on business ideas and tips.

[koolpenguin89]

I suppose the title of my post was wrong. It should have read...

"Do any FILMMAKERS actually use their HV20."

I work in TV and see PLENTY of people who make a living doing videography. In fact, 15% of the people I work with do considering they shoot news for a living.

I overall agree with your post.

I just want to see the enthusiastic nature of the DVX crowd with this camera. I remember a few years ago when the DVX came out, every independent filmmaker almost wet his/her pants.

Now it just seems everyone is more interested in decking out their rig.


I mean, come on....

If your shooting a wedding video, do you really need this?

http://www.cinevate.com/images/hv20d.jpg

probably not. But I guess maybe you do? What do I know. I love the grainy look of my ZR800! It makes your feel dirty just looking at the image.

Different strokes for different blokes I suppose.

Once again. I didn't mean to start an uproar. I just want FILMMAKERS to stop worrying so much about every little technical aspect and just make something for christ sakes. UNLESS YOUR KUBRICK. Then you can worry about whatever the hell you want.

I think we would all love to see as money HV20 lovers as there are DVX lovers, and in time, maybe their will be. Remember that this camcorder has only been out for 1 year. Actually, now that ive written that, it occurs to me how long 1 year actualy is. I dont know, maybe the indie filmmaker is a dying breed? Its not like it used to be, when one would really have to dedicate themselves and their lives to persue filmmaking. With the introduction of the HV20 and similair comcorders, virtually anyone can "try out" filmmaking. I for one take it seriously, and intend to persue it as a career. Im starting now doing freelance work just so i can build up some money, but i think within the next couple of months i might start to seriously think about creating a feature length film. You have inspired me, SFD, to take it to the next step.

Or maybe im just really tired. Its 3 AM here, and i have to be up at 8:00 for a 10 hour editing session. Wish me luck everybody.

Dylan

[Split Field Diopter]

Pretty wise words Dylan-

When I was sixteen I was doing tape to tape on two VCR's. Although, the next year I did get a start on an AVID.

You're totally right about anyone being able to try out filmmaking. It seems like anyone now with a thousand bucks can produce a movie that would have taken THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars just 10 years ago.

I guess there is no respect for the craft ( i say craft because I hate the word "art"/ even though it is one!)

I guess people who thought the profession was out of reach appreciate the ease nowadays to be able to go to someones apartment on a whim and shoot a short and make it look better than most movies from the 80's.

Ps. I love the eighties. Especially CLASS OF 1984 (1982) more of these movies need to be made!


good luck. at 16 you've got an incrediblly early start on the game. Two suggestions. WATCH AS MANY MOVIES AS YOU CAN. and MAKE AS MANY MOVIES AS YOU CAN.

I always tell people, all you need to be a filmmaker is a mac, any camera, imdb.com and netflix.

[Dr. Benway]

I've had my camera since last July and have yet to make a "movie". I'm still learning though. How long does it take to learn the violin? To become a good writer? To learn a martial art? It takes years. I shoot all the time with my camera and have hundreds of little clips on my computer that I never post. There's a lot to learn......not just with the camera, but with the editing software, with pulldown, encoding, uploading, audio, etc.

Give us another 6 months or so...one of us will upload a masterpiece.

Hey threadhanger that's spot on, that it does take ages to learn this process. I for one am a very slow creatively; some things take me years.

You definitely have a point SFD. And although it's not an entirely male thing, salivating over tech and tooling with your kit until it's overcooked without making much is very common.

Yet I love that we have this tech, just as musos have studios built around their computers and, if they wish to be independent, are no longer beholden to labels, we are free too.

It is another wave of the democratisation of art practice which is something to be cherished. To me art is one of the strongest indicators of a democratic civilisation; versus say, life under the Taliban.

[Lunchbox]

I suppose the title of my post was wrong. It should have read...

"Do any FILMMAKERS actually use their HV20."

Title renamed.

[tcindie]

I suppose I should also mention that the other reason I'm not terribly active with making any films is that my day job (and part time night job) are taking up a major chunk of my time. Also, I'm more into the post production side of things, so while I have the camera and am planning on getting some more accessories for it, I don't really consider myself a director or cinematographer. I am, however, a pretty decent producer and a decent technical director (along with all the post stuff). But, I figure by owning as much of the gear as possible it decreases the cost of production for a film. So it's an investment I guess.

[Rikki]

Dunno.

I think there are more people doing documentary style work, shorts, weddings, events and vblogging/web stuff on here than feature film makers.

I use my HV20 for filming car events for my website, I also do event photography and have done a few weddings as well. Am I wrong to want to have the highest quality video and audio for these things?

I've pimped my 20 with a Rode Videomic, a Zoom H2 for documentary audio recording, a Steadicam JR for smoother shots and a 35mm adapter to blow DOF out when filming people or cars. Is that wrong too?

You like films, so do I. I dont love the classics, Im not a fan of an era or a style, only good entertainment. I thought the Godfather trilogy was long and drawn out but I loved Goodfellas. I thought Jumper was skatty but liked Cloverfield.

Different folks use their HV's for different things and if some want to upgrade parts for whatever reason that should be cool.

[Duke]

LordTangent is making a film right now with the HV20. I'm in preproduction. But only a shoestring indie picture is going to use and HV20. (That would be me.) On a shoestring you can't afford to buy a fabulous script. You either write one (you'd need multiple extra skills and wouldn't you like to sell the script if it's that good) or you partner with someone (who would also probably like to sell it.)

Of the three scripts my little production group was working on, one of the scripts just got optioned out from under us.

And in the end, it's all about the story.

Duke