This is a HUGE problem...(drop outs)

[1]

Sorry, lance; I didn't read the whole thread, and this was probably suggested already; but if you're having problems shooting at really low temps, I'd suggest a small warming blanket (12V), or some warming packs. Even the RED at $17500 needs those for low temp recording, and that doesn't even have a TAPE!!
Keeping equipment warm with such measures is not really uncommon, and not dependent on the price of the equipment.

If your Sony 8mm cams did perform where some other equipment doesn't it might not be so much a failure of the other equipment, but speaks to a neat design/feature of the Sony's.

[Lance Campeau]

@ CycleWriter

For the second time... Do you have anything actual experience to speak of? No? I guess your just interested to trying to sound smart with your verbose postings.

Please visit my website >>> www.LanceCampeau.com

There you can see what ACTUAL experience looks like...

Can you provide the same? Didn't think so...

[Dodgy Nick]

Please visit my website >>> www.LanceCampeau.com

[Lance Campeau]

Now that's funny...

[Lance Campeau]

The worst part of all this is that that camera doesn't give you ANY indication at all that there might be a problem

The camera should indicate that there is a problem, enough said...

[CycleWriter]

Originally Posted by Lance Campeau:
The worst part of all this is that that camera doesn't give you ANY indication at all that there might be a problem

The camera should indicate that there is a problem, enough said...

Oh my God, now you think the camera should speak up to remind you of what is clearly printed in the manual? Maybe some mood ring-type device that responds to ambient temperature. This is getting way too comical. No, Lance, I don't have the vast experience in video that you have. Which makes it all the more humorous that you fail to grasp how ridiculous you sound in your defenses of your position. Someone with your experience should certainly have known better, don't you think? I'm just a lowly video hack eeking out a living doing small, niche-market documentaries, but I know enough not to bash a manufacturer in public for a problem of my own making. My first post in this forum was about the poor low-light performance of the HV20, but I didn't go off shouting that it was a defect. Thankfully, some of the many helpful people in here responded with techniques that allowed me to see the true capabilities of this fine camera. I doubt that would have happened had I titled the thread, "HV20 has HUGE problem shooting in low light!" and then tried to present it as a defect rather than my own unfamiliarity with the camera. But I guess that's what makes this forum interesting. Lots of personality types to entertain us. For me, I'm often referred to as a manic-depressive, passive-aggressive social misfit with narcissistic complex. I kinda like that description.

[Lance Campeau]

I see it as this...

-By all normal indications, the camera reported that it was recording.
-in reality, there was a error and it was not recording.

Whatever the actual cause...

-my error (shooting in a temperature lower then recommended)
-interface design (no indication that cold was now effecting the performance)

A camera that says it's recording when it's not IS a huge and potentially costly problem.

My experience with other DV cameras (panasonic & sony) as well as my older Hi-8 equipment showed me, on several occasions, that recording in extreme conditions was not only possible but a suprisingly reliable technique regardless of what the manufacture suggested. To avoid a massive product recall, These items are frequently designed to handle conditions far worse than stated in the owners manual (hot sun, moisture, sand, rain, snow etc...) It also has to stand up to tests conducted by agencies like Underwriters Laboratory and The Canadian Standards Association. If the product failed at the first instance of adverse conditions it's reputation would suffer and the product sales would drop. Take a look at how many broken Samsung camcorders are for sale on Ebay (or JVC for that matter).

If the HV20 has a sensitivity to cold unlike other models in it's class, people will want to know this information before buying. The urgency of my post has brought light to this subject, maybe it wasn't the best way to do it, but the point is to try and solve the small problem before it becomes bigger.

You can bet that camera designers read these posts just as much as the users. Maybe it will help with future designs...

[CycleWriter]

At the risk of further beating this horse to death, let me just say that I think you are overreacting, overreaching and overthinking the problem. This is a sub-$1000 camera that provides fairly cutting-edge capabilities. If companies were to manufacture products with your mindset we would never be able to afford them. Damn Canon for not building in a higher margin of error in their operating specs. As for UL and CSA, I don't believe either certifies products for their usability, only for their safety and adherence to standards related to electrical devices. There is nothing about the HV20 that would lead a reasonable person to think it capable of working beyond its specified operating range. That you have done so with other cameras is irrelevant. There is no standardization for such devices that would give credence to the idea that one will work the same as another. I'm glad you found out, empirically, what many of us could have surmised even without your anecdotal evidence. If I ever travel north during the winter to shoot some video I will feel duly informed by your travails. Can we move on now?

[Lance Campeau]

and with a cliché, we end the madness...

"They don't make em' like they used to."

[Duke]

Just an idea, but some tapes use liquid lubricant and others use dry lubricant. You might try different ones to see if it makes a difference, However, I'd probably just invest in one of those plastic bags of chemicals that heat up for a couple hours when you heat them.

Duke

[winston vargas]

Forget the Maxell tape. if you want to shoot HD then use a tape like the Panasonic PQ or AMQ tapes, no real need to use the HDV tapes. Clean the tape path with a head cleaner and stick to the same tape brand. Do not use old tapes, and if you have to use a tape that has been previously recorded erase it by recording a black signal., This will also maintain your time code if you decide that you want to play back from time to time as you shoot.

Winston

[1]

Lance, you seem more interested in "making your point" than trying to find a reasonable solution. I suggested to use some warming device (cover/pack/blanket) which is quite commonly used in cold weather for film and video; yet this thread seems to be going nowhere other than in circles.

I think there's plenty people here that offered good suggestions, and if some got a bit upset; well, that would be partly due to the way the original title and post read, I think.

I feel not much more can be gained by keeping this thread open.

You are dissatisfied with the HV20 and have now clearly stated why.
Fair enough.

At the very least, I think you should give heed to Duke and Winston's suggestions and try the Pana tapes. Might turn out all the issues aren't even cam related. If they are, there's ways you can still use the cam under the conditions you require by following other suggestions.

Best of luck with this...