This is a HUGE problem...(drop outs)

[Lance Campeau]

So I have had my HV20 for a little over a month and I have noticed a major problem with this camera.

Dropped frames

Not just a few frames but HUGE sections of video are NOT recording to tape (sometimes over 30 seconds)... Of course, I don't find this out untill I am back in the studio capturing my footage to the hard drive. Just today, I found a 45 second gap in my tape... no audio, no video... just blue screen... in a critical part of my days work. today's shoot was a TOTAL WRITEOFF.

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS!?!

Imagine if I was doing a wedding video or some other once-in-a-lifetime event. This is insane.

Before you all start asking...

-I only use brand new tape when shooting (Maxell regular DV, not HD tape)
-I clean my heads regularly (every few days, a quick 10 seconds)
-It's NOT my computer setup, hard drive, capture card etc...

This is not the first time, this has happen 3 times now... If this happens once more, I'm returning this camera.


IMPORTANT UPDATE TO THIS POST.....

As stated above, I have been having problems with my HV20... at first I suspected it was caused by poor quality tape/reusing tape. After speaking with the Canon customer service rep, I realize that exposure to extreme cold may have been the problem instead. He cited an example from another Canon user that had a similar problem using a pro model. What was he shooting? An ice fishing documentary... long periods in the cold with little protection from the wind... This is exactly the same situation I was in when the malfunctions occured.

Each time I had a problem it was when the camera had been exposed to a constant wind in cold weather conditions (-10 C or less). In retrospect, the times where the camera failed to record to tape I was also not wearing gloves and my hands were nearly frostbitten. At all other times the HV20 recorded without problems. If I took the camera into the car for a few minutes to warm up it seemed to help. I am not certain but this may have been the problem all along...

[Duke]

It could be a bad camera, but you might also try a couple different tapes. More people report better results with Panasonic PQ or MQ, or Sony tapes. Clean between different brands.

Some people have reported drop outs from bad battery seating. See that it's getting good contact and/or try another battery or two.

Hope that helps.
Duke

[koolpenguin89]

The head cleaner is probably your problem. Your not supposed to clean it that often, definantly NOT every few days. Only use it when you see a dropout, because it is literally a bunch of bristles that rub on the recording head. I hope this isnt your problem though, because if you did clean it excessively, it might be too late

Dylan

[Lance Campeau]

This is BAD... I just checked another section of the tape.... 4 minutes missing... The worst part of all this is that that camera doesn't give you ANY indication at all that there might be a problem... no warning, NOTHING.
this is total garbage. what's the point of a camera that lets you waste your entire day shooting only to findout LATER that it didn't record a damm thing.

My new HV20 is going back to the store tomorrow...

[Lance Campeau]

I haven't cleaned it that much, I have only had it about 5 weeks.

[dkijc]

I'm so sorry about that... Lucky for me, those drop frames happened when I was testing the camera out. For me, tho, it was a tape problem. One to b exact. I doubt it's the tape since it seems to be frequent. I had no complaints on this camcorder, so far (Had it since May or June 2007) and would recommend this camcorder again if you are looking to get a video camera after your return. However, I do understand if you change your mind. Sorry about your losses.

[bimpatiens]

Lance Campeau
What do software do you use to render? Do you "black" your tapes first? Hope you can resolve this.

Chris

[Lance Campeau]

By "blacked" do you mean pre-striping the tape? No, I used to do that with my old camera, I have not done it with this one. I am to understand that HDV records differently than regular DV...? Does pre-striping make a big difference with HDV cams? I have not even heard a mention of it in any fourms that I have read...

[nolonemo]

30 sec or more not recording to tape isn't a dropped frames or tape quality issue. I have no idea what it is, but I would exchange the camera ASAP.

[lordtangent]

Yeah. Seriously dude. It sounds like you have a "Lemon"

[CycleWriter]

Each time I had a problem it was when the camera had been exposed to a constant wind in cold weather conditions (-10 C or less). In retrospect, the times where the camera failed to record to tape I was also not wearing gloves and my hands were nearly frostbitten. At all other times the HV20 recorded without problems. If I took the camera into the car for a few minutes to warm up it seemed to help. I am not certain but this may have been the problem all along...[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Would have been nice if you had divulged some of that BEFORE you assumed it was the camera's fault. I'm sure several readers like me, who just purchased their camera in the past 2 weeks, were pretty alarmed to be reading your original post. I'm glad you may have resolved your issue, but it might have been helpful had you told us early on that you were shooting in arctic conditions. Sometimes the most obvious solution is the hardest to see.

[Lance Campeau]

Would have been nice if you had divulged some of that BEFORE you assumed it was the camera's fault. I'm sure several readers like me, who just purchased their camera in the past 2 weeks, were pretty alarmed to be reading your original post. I'm glad you may have resolved your issue, but it might have been helpful had you told us early on that you were shooting in arctic conditions. Sometimes the most obvious solution is the hardest to see.

I am still not certain that exposure to cold was the cause of the malfunction... I am interested in finding out if anyone else has had this problem with the HV20, in cold weather or warm. There may be other unreported factors to consider...

I lost a day's work because of this malfunction and will not use this model again untill this issue resolved. Imagine shooting a wedding and losing 4 minutes during the vows... Your client would have a valid reason to take you to court over something like that... no thanks.

[nolonemo]

I lost a day's work because of this malfunction and will not use this model again untill this issue resolved. Imagine shooting a wedding and losing 4 minutes during the vows...

Dude, I want to see a wedding in -10C temps -- but not in person! BTW, the HV20 manual gives the operating temperature range for the HV20 as 0-40C, so you were definitely out of the range.... I suspect that that's it, but don't know.

[lpmedia]

I had the same problem when I was recording some snowmobile racing a few months ago. It was probably between 10-15 degrees F.
I would have random missing spots on the tape that would only show up when capturing. At the most, probably 5 seconds worth of footage would be missing, but it would chop in and out for over a minute before returning to normal.

[CycleWriter]

I am still not certain that exposure to cold was the cause of the malfunction... I am interested in finding out if anyone else has had this problem with the HV20, in cold weather or warm. There may be other unreported factors to consider...

I lost a day's work because of this malfunction and will not use this model again untill this issue resolved. Imagine shooting a wedding and losing 4 minutes during the vows... Your client would have a valid reason to take you to court over something like that... no thanks.

I fully understand your reaction, but I think it was unfair for you to post such an alarmist thread without first having done some research. The title and content of your post insinuated an inherent problem with the camera and gave no hint that the problem was more likely that you failed to note the recommended operating range in the manual. As such, it probably created quite a stir among HV20 owners reading this forum. Having only had mine for two weeks I know I was alarmed after seeing the provocative title and reading your original post. I spent over an hour doing Google searches to see if I could find out more information on the subject (thankfully, I didn't). Places like this are great for finding out about potential flaws in a product, but I think one should be a little more responsible when casting negative aspersions on a product before having all the facts. Your post was irresponsible in that it did not provide critical information that would have led readers to surmise that it was not a valid camera fault. And your follow-up posts (before you added the edit about the cold conditions) hammered even more on the "bad camera" premise of your first. I'm not trying to jump in your you-know-what, but a little restraint in situations like this is warranted. I'm glad you came forward with more info and I hope the cold was the source of your problem (since it is beyond the recommended operating range and even farther beyond what I'll ever need to do with it), but I'll think twice if I see another alarming thread title with your name on it.

[Dennis Vogel]

Since the recommended operating temperature for the HV20 is 0-40 degrees C, it would seem to me that the cam simply failed to record due to the low temperature. Did you really expect it to work in conditions beyond those it was engineered for?

Good luck.

Dennis

[Lance Campeau]

Perhaps my original post was hasty... You may say "alarmist" but the bottom line is this... This is still a major technical malfunction on a 5 week old, $900 camera. If your specialty was capturing footage of outdoor winter sports would you still buy an HV20 after reading this entire post? I wouldn't... My old Sony Hi-8 cameras functioned perfectly in even colder weather. So, next time i'll buy a more robust, professional model with a proper protective cover. Lesson learned...

Other than this unpleasentness, my HV20 is still a sweet, feature packed, wet dream for indy filmakers who don't plan to shoot in the cold.

[nolonemo]

This is still a major technical malfunction on a 5 week old, $900 camera.

Wrong. If it doesn't perform outside of the specs, that's not a "malfunction," it means that the camera is functioning in accordance with its design.

[CycleWriter]

Perhaps my original post was hasty... You may say "alarmist" but the bottom line is this... This is still a major technical malfunction on a 5 week old, $900 camera. If your specialty was capturing footage of outdoor winter sports would you still buy an HV20 after reading this entire post? I wouldn't... My old Sony Hi-8 cameras functioned perfectly in even colder weather. So, next time i'll buy a more robust, professional model with a proper protective cover. Lesson learned...

Other than this unpleasentness, my HV20 is still a sweet, feature packed, wet dream for indy filmakers who don't plan to shoot in the cold.

I think the bottom line is that any time you work outside the recommended parameters of ANY product you are asking for trouble of your own making. If my specialty was capturing outdoor winter sports I certainly would have read up on the operating temperature range of my equipment BEFORE I put too much faith in it, and I wouldn't be denigrating it for my failure to do that.

Like I said, I'm glad it appears to have not been a camera defect. I didn't pay $900 for mine, but I still would have been disappointed had it turned out to be a real lemon.

[Lance Campeau]

I'll say it again... All three of my old Sony Hi-8 cameras funtioned PERFECTLY in -20C with added wind chill. This was FAR beyond the recomended operating temperture of these models. I guess I was hoping for a repeat of this great performance with the HV20... Whatever the case, it ain't happenin'

[bluegrass]

I'm sorry the camera doesn't perform outside of it's temperature range like the old Hi 8 did. I'll keep that in mind. I don't suspect that I'll be shooting in that extreme weather conditions but it's good to have that knowlege in the back of my head. Maybe you could make some sort of protective glove like device to keep the camera out of the elements a little when shooting in the exteme cold.

[CycleWriter]

I'll say it again... All three of my old Sony Hi-8 cameras funtioned PERFECTLY in -20C with added wind chill. This was FAR beyond the recomended operating temperture of these models. I guess I was hoping for a repeat of this great performance with the HV20... Whatever the case, it ain't happenin'

OK, I've tried to show restraint but you make it impossible. Why in the heck would you predict the operation of your new digital Canon camera on the basis of what your old analog Sony cameras could do? Just the difference between the two camera formats in bandwidth transfer alone would cause me to give it a little more thought than you obviously did. Your obstinacy about this leads me to believe you will suffer a repeat of this episode when you try to do something else with the camera that it wasn't designed for. Please do us all a favor and don't come here to tell us about it or bash Canon because it didn't perform outside their operational parameters the way you expected it to. I'm sure it won't be relevant to how any of us use our cameras.

[Lance Campeau]

To CycleWriter:

Most people here are not interested in having to filter through your personal opinions about me. Please stick to the issue at hand. Not all of us plan to use the HV20 just for backyard BBQ's or little league games. Serious people need to know what this camera can really take. Not just "what the manual says" it will so please, unless you have some actual experience with this model to speak of, give it a rest.

[CycleWriter]

To CycleWriter:

Most people here are not interested in having to filter through your personal opinions about me. Please stick to the issue at hand. Some people plan to use the HV20 for more than a backyard BBQ or little league game and they need to know what this camera can really take. Not just "what the manual says" it will.

Well, might I suggest you start a website devoted to guerilla usage of the Canon HV20? You crack me up, man. I dare say that the majority of people viewing these forums aren't too concerned about how the HV20 might stand up to combat use or other use outside the scope of its design. I think we care a lot about the camera's usability for the tasks it was intended. Your backpedaling response about usage beyond "just what the manual says" has nothing to do with what you originally posted. You didn't come in warning us about using the HV20 in extreme cold. That info didn't come out until later. You posted with the express desire to bash the camera and Canon for some perceived defect. A defect of your own making, as it turns out. So save your disingenuous rewrite trying to convince us that you were only trying to be helpful. Actually, you were helpful in proving that there's usually a good reason why manufacturers specify the operating parameters of their products. So that when you push-the-envelope types get throttled by your own hubris us color-inside-the-lines types can laugh at and ridicule you. For that I say, thank you.

[nolonemo]

Not all of us plan to use the HV20 just for backyard BBQ's or little league games. Serious people need to know what this camera can really take. Not just "what the manual says" it will

The problem is that you created a thread with an alarmist title spreading FUD. The fact that the camera doesn't work well in strong winds 10 degrees centigrade below its operating specifications is not a "HUGE problem," in fact it's not even a problem at all. The problem is trying to get the camera to do something its not designed to do. Sort of like complaining that your feet got cold during the shoot wearing basketball shoes.

The people on this forum are generally pretty laid back and helpful. If you're getting bashed, it's most likely because you were wrong in the first place. Getting in people's face and acting condescending aren't going to change that.