PAL HV20 25p Questions

[warrj]

Hi,

Sorry, to post yet another question on PAL 25p. I've read many threads on 25p and the Mac and because I don't understand much of the video-specific terminology I end up not understanding the answers.

I recently bought a PAL HV20 in order to capture moments from the life of my new daughter. I'm pretty much up to speed on still digital photography (Canon 40D, RAW, Lightroom etc) however I don't wish to delve too deeply into the technical side of digital video - I just want to get the best footage I can with the minimum amount of effort on my part.

My editing system will be a PowerMac dual 2.7Ghz G5. At the moment I only have iMovieHD and 06. Output will (initially) be to Apple TV and h.264 video files (which I'll send to relatives in the US for viewing on computer) and then later (perhaps) to Blu-Ray.

So, I have a few questions:

Is it possible for me to shoot in 25p and then edit the footage in iMovie 06?
If so, how?

If not then could I do so in FCE?
If so, how?

Lastly, if I start shooting in 25p are there any considerations I need to make when editing a mixture of 50i (which is what I've been shooting) and 25p.

Any help or advice (very very) gratefully received,

Jules.

[warrj]

Anyone?

[svar]

im not shure, but I think you must at least use FCE.
It is not wery hard (the way I have understanded how to do it), I can make I guide then I come home from work.

It is however, esyer on a PAL cam than a NTSC cam.

[warrj]

Hi Svar,

That would be much appreciated. I don't mind buying FCE if necessary

Regards,

Jules.

[mattias]

25p works fine in imovie. it will render all effects as interlaced, which can look strange, but it will work. when you mix you have the same problem, it can look weird, but there are no technical concerns really. (until you venture further, upgrading your software, and so on, but that's another story) :-)

/matt

[svar]

warrj: sorry for the wait, but here is a guide the way I understand is right, for fce of fcp:

1: import youre 25p footage as normal, as far as I know import it as HDV 1080i50

2: right click on the clip and select item properties-->format:


3: Right click on "field dominance" and select "none":


4: make a new sequence (or edit a old) Right click on it and select "settings"

5: Set the "field dominance" to "none":



As far as I understand that that is it for hv20/30 PAL version.
I dont know btw, if the compressor settings (picture in step5) shal be 1080i50 or 720p25, maybe someone else know the ansver.
Not ssure too if step5 look exaply the same in fce.

Why import as hdv 1080i? As far as I understand it is because the 25p footage from hv20/30 is covered in a 1080i stream.

[mattias]

compression settings should definitely be 1080i50 if it's a 1080i50 sequence. if it's a 720p25 sequence it should be 720p25. :-)

/matt

[warrj]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply so helpfully (especially svar). I'll give some thought to a purchase of FCE.

matt - is it OK to mix interlaced and progressive footage in the same sequence and if so do the interlaced and progressive components of the sequence need their own compression settings?

I have to say that digital video processing seems to be an order of magnitude more complicated than still digital photo processing. I'm guessing that as things mature people (such as me) with neither the time or inclination to understand the underlying technology will be better served by software which really 'just works'

Regards,

Jules.

[mattias]

why would they need different codec settings when they are both 1080i50? :-) setting the field order to none just tells fcp how to interpret the clip. it's still interlaced, just with the two fields captured at the same time thus no jaggies, and will stay that way as long as you're editing hdv since there is no 1080p in hdv.

if you put interlaced clips in a progressive sequence they are automatically deinterlaced. if you put progressive clips in an interlaced sequence nothing happens. how you mix depends on how you want to output.

/matt

[funwithstuff]

if you put interlaced clips in a progressive sequence they are automatically deinterlaced. if you put progressive clips in an interlaced sequence nothing happens. how you mix depends on how you want to output.

/matt

The automatic deinterlacing halves resolution -- you need to set field dominance to none if you're using HV20's progressive-stored-as-interlaced footage and put those clips in a progressive sequence for true progressive results. Not sure if you'll be able to do that with FCE, but it's easy enough in FCP.

More info for 25fps progressive HV20 footage (old, potentially needing an update!) on my site here:

http://funwithstuff.com/therules/200...-solution.html

-- Iain Anderson
-- Final Cut Pro Certified Trainer

[mattias]

The automatic deinterlacing halves resolution

i already addressed the issues with progressive clips above. if the clips are *interlaced* and you want progressive output the automatic deinterlace is a good thing. of course there are smarter methods around, like my own, see website, but the built in does a decent job.

/matt

[funwithstuff]

i already addressed the issues with progressive clips above. if the clips are *interlaced* and you want progressive output the automatic deinterlace is a good thing. of course there are smarter methods around, like my own, see website, but the built in does a decent job.

/matt

I find the built-in feature just pixel-doubles, whether you wanted that or not -- disaster if you have HV20 25PF footage that you want to work with in a true progressive sequence. For true interlaced footage, you may get better results applying filters like Flicker Filter (or one of your filters). But I don't disagree with your post above, and kudos for your great work with the TMTS filters!

[mattias]

I find the built-in feature just pixel-doubles, whether you wanted that or not -- disaster if you have HV20 25PF footage

but you don't. what part of "interlaced" is it you don't quite get? :-) but yes, you need to manually mark all progressive clips as such for them to be treated correctly, that's not what i'm talking about.

/matt

[deniser]

I have found the tutorials on Apples site extremely helpful with FCE

[mattias]

a good summary, but i'd like to add that it works quite well to edit interlaced footage in progressive sequences. it will automatically be deinterlaced and that's generally what you want if you're editing in progressive. the solution if you want a better quality deinterlace than the automatically applied one, is to set the interlaced footage to "none" as mentioned above and then apply a third party filter, like magic bullet or my own tmts filters. but i'd like to stress that simply dropping the footage there will usually look perfectly fine. the vertical res will get slightly lower, around a 30% decrease, but "won't look good" is not true in my opinion.

/matt