HDMI controversy tested!

[BWC]

I agree. The HDMI interface is single most intelligent decision the HVXX design team made. After that come Headphone OUT and after that, Mic IN.

Very true. Once there is an affordable DVR tht can capture uncompressed, the HV20, 30, and 40 -even with broken tape drives - will sell for at least as much as a used 30 sells for now.

[lordtangent]

EDIT: There's also a new interview with Ted Schilowitz in the latest RED Centre podcast at fxphd (#043) in which he states that Epic-X and the first of the Scarlets should be released "around Thanksgiving."

Hm... 7D was looking like my Christmas present this year but if the Scarlet ships in time that might change things.

[Lubenator]

This is the situation:
My wife got a contract (Directing) shooting movie in India. She would take RED/SONY cameras with her from here. On other hand, I will take HV40/with Handy35 V5+Plus with us for some external, internal, time-laps, everyday shots for inserts/masters added to the RED/SONY master Sc. shots. The question is: Do I need to have the "NanoFlash" with me and record to it via HDMI or I could record/transfer the material to "NanoFlash" after I am done shooting. I do prefer after I am done shooting and I have many reasons for that, but, not sure if possible. I don't see a reason why not, but, I don't know... I probably would have to ask the "Nano" people that question

[zephyrnoid]

This is the situation:
My wife got a contract (Directing) shooting movie in India. She would take RED/SONY cameras with her from here. On other hand, I will take HV40/with Handy35 V5+Plus with us for some external, internal, time-laps, everyday shots for inserts/masters added to the RED/SONY master Sc. shots. The question is: Do I need to have the "NanoFlash" with me and record to it via HDMI or I could record/transfer the material to "NanoFlash" after I am done shooting. I do prefer after I am done shooting and I have many reasons for that, but, not sure if possible. I don't see a reason why not, but, I don't know... I probably would have to ask the "Nano" people that question

1) Be sure when you and your wife are shooting that you shoot in compatible formats etc. RED records in RAW format. Not so the HV40. So there'll be a very visible difference in the images between the two cameras if they are mixed into the same program.
2) You get zero benefit recording the HV40 footage to tape or whatever it uses and then copying out to the Nanoflash. The Nanoflash allows for a higher quality recording directly out of the HDMI so you MUST use it when shooting.
I suggest you inform yourself by reading this thread all the way through and talking to the 'Nano' people.

[Lubenator]

1) Be sure when you and your wife are shooting that you shoot in compatible formats etc. RED records in RAW format. Not so the HV40. So there'll be a very visible difference in the images between the two cameras if they are mixed into the same program.
2) You get zero benefit recording the HV40 footage to tape or whatever it uses and then copying out to the Nanoflash. The Nanoflash allows for a higher quality recording directly out of the HDMI so you MUST use it when shooting.
I suggest you inform yourself by reading this thread all the way through and talking to the 'Nano' people.

Thank you Zephyrnoid! I did all that and you are correct. When ones compressed to tape no way out of it.

[Erik Bien]

First, the good: at long last, somebody's decided to build a solid state HDMI/HD-SDI recorder/7-inch monitor combo using the CineForm codec.

Now the not-so-good: it writes to still-exotic SSDs, not commodity CF/SD cards and costs $5K-$6K depending on configuration. If this thing had made it to market two years ago, or at least still came in at the "around $2K" price point proposed way back then, it would be exciting. With KiPro and nanoFlash already shipping for a lot less dough, however, I find it pretty under-whelming.

[lordtangent]

Eric,

IMHO, the Cine Deck is still a pretty big break through. We are talking about HDCAM "HQ" quality at a fraction of the cost in a WAY more convenient form factor. I mean, it's also a field monitor with a histogram, a playback station and a tablet computer. More flexible than any of the others you mentioned. That's the kind of Information Age thinking I expect, but so few manufacturers seem to "get". I hope this company does really well. They deserve to.

[waverz]

This was posted by Blondeandfun in the Hack Thread. Looks like this is puts an end to the controversy.

you need the WL-D82 controller from another product, the WL-D87 won't work.

Also confirmed from signal processing schematics is HDMI is 1440x1080, NOT 1920x1080

"The DIGIC DV II makes a general processing of moving image and still image signals while using two SDRAM. Moving image
signals outputs video data to BASEBANDIC as non-compression HD signal at 1440 × 1080 in the HD mode and DV format signals
at 720 × 576(PAL) in the 8D mode.
In the moving image mode, signals at 1920 × 1080 pixels (2M) are input to the DIGIC DV II and still images at 1920 × 1080 pixels
(2M) can be recorded in the memory card.
In the still image mode, signals at 1920 × 1440 (2.8M) are processed"

Clearly from the schematics the signal that goes through HDMI is after it leaves teh DIGIC DV II and is probably mixed with the audio in another chip or two.

[BARSENAL]

This was posted by Blondeandfun in the Hack Thread. Looks like this is puts an end to the controversy.

I saw this too. I always suspected this was the case. I gather we still do benefit from 4:2:2 colour space and no MPEG compression? My keys look noticeably better through HDMI capture.

[_gl]

I gather we still do benefit from 4:2:2 colour space and no MPEG compression? My keys look noticeably better through HDMI capture.

Yep.

[William Thompson]

HV40 HDMI will only transmit at 29.97 frames so if you go with 24P then you have to go firewire to avoid pulldown.

[Lubenator]

HV40 HDMI will only transmit at 29.97 frames so if you go with 24P then you have to go firewire to avoid pulldown.

There is no 24P in HV40! Canon HV40 has HDV/PF30/PF24/24F/DV Wide and Normal as a HD Standard. Do you mean 24F - 23.976fps?, or something else?

[William Thompson]

Sure.

[The Crowing]

Mac users are screwed then as far as live capturing without the nano right? I mean with PC you could get short tower and get a intensity card. but the only mac that will support such a card is the Macpro,Which is certainly not portable. Are there any real solutions that are under three grand?

[Hal Smith]

Much of the resolution controversy is related to camera sensor and encoding moire. To get a feel for moire browse around through the BBC camera test white paper located here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp034.shtml

[BWC]

Has no one run HV30 HDMI>AJA>DVCPRO and looked at it yet?

[Kostas]

I have a brand new acer 1410 netbook with windows 7. It is sealed in it's box yet, but before opening it I would like to ask: can I use an hdmi capture card (and how would this be connected to the netbook) to capture through hdmi?

[plainfaced]

I have a brand new acer 1410 netbook with windows 7. It is sealed in it's box yet, but before opening it I would like to ask: can I use an hdmi capture card (and how would this be connected to the netbook) to capture through hdmi?

I was about to ask the same question.. sort of.

Is there an HDMI capture card (or box moreso), that can be connected to a PC/Mac via Firewire?

[Kostas]

Unfortunately, this is the reply I got from the Blackmagic support:
"I’m afraid that it is not possible to use any of our capture products with a laptop computer. The Intensity Pro, as well as all of our capture cards use PCIe to interface with their host computer. There is no reliable way to connect this to a laptop computer. USB for example just doesn’t have the bandwidth to carry the uncompressed video data required."

[vince]

Kostas, when did you get this reply? Apparently BlackMagic now has an adapter that works on USB 3.0 and there are express cards for notebooks (not netbooks) that have a USB 3.0 port. I believe the adapter is called Intensity Shuttle. Wondering if anyone has any experience with it to capture from the HDMI port. Oops, available in May!

[mwilloam]

Why is no one talking about this?:

http://www.motu.com/video-products/hd-express-hdmi

$495

Seems like this would work perfect for HDMI capture. The issue on a laptop would be hard disk i/o but you could capture HDMI direct as Prores or another intermediate codec.

[Clayton]

Interesting read here ....

http://provideocoalition.com/index.p..._hdv_via_hdmi/

[zephyrnoid]

Reviving an old thread I know. If this is being discussed elsewhere, MOD please redirect.
Is this the kind of external capture device we were praying for back in '09 and does the HV20 ( I can't remember) output uncompressed 8bit or 10bit HD?
http://vimeo.com/14913405

[Halsu]

Reviving an old thread I know. If this is being discussed elsewhere, MOD please redirect.
Is this the kind of external capture device we were praying for back in '09 and does the HV20 ( I can't remember) output uncompressed 8bit or 10bit HD?
http://vimeo.com/14913405

The answer is "yes" in both accounts. I recall HV20 output being 8 actual bits, in a 10 bit wrapper.

[icarusi]

Why is no one talking about this?:

http://www.motu.com/video-products/hd-express-hdmi

$495

Seems like this would work perfect for HDMI capture. The issue on a laptop would be hard disk i/o but you could capture HDMI direct as Prores or another intermediate codec.

Pity it's not usb3 or/and thunderbolt. I'm already concerned about new non-fruit firewire kit being available in the future.