Challenges of shooting a feature with two HV20s

[Gene Latimer]

After passing on the A1 and V1U for the camera I could afford -- and with which i could pick up a few "side" shots for the feature film I'm working on -- am starting to think about the possibility of actually shooting most of the film with the HV20. Actually, for a lot of the scenes, that would be 2-3 HV20s.

My primary concerns:
1) Sound. Should I just get a good external, digital audio recorder for my sound and be prepared to edit with that? Any suggestions for equipment?

2) Time Code. Am supposing I can slate everything in the more-than-one-camera scenes, in order to sync the multiple footage sources, but without originating time code, how will I need to create the best work flow in FCP 6?

Should I be concerned about any other big issues?

Thanks,
Gene

PS: I do have a friend with a Canon A1. If he got involved in the project and I use his camera instead of a second HV20, should we be able to match the footage ok? (Have another friend who's a professional colorist on a high-end system so the color correction will be first rate.) Would it make the time code issues in post any easier to deal with?

PPS: have another friend with Sony's V1U. If he and his camera got involved instead, would the V1 footage be too different from the HV20 -- or could that combination work also?

[Rikki]

Interesting, I cant answer anything you have asked but I am very interested in the outcome of this.

From what I can gather the audio recording on HDV is chronic though so an external unit is desirable.

[Erik Bien]

Unless I'm mistaken (experts, please correct me) the HV20 is the only camera you mentioned that shoots true 24-progressive-frames per second. Assuming that's what you'll be using to shoot your movie, I would definitely test intercutting the HV20's footage with either the A1 or the V1U's "fake 24P" before committing to the choice.

Plus I think the others are both CCD cameras, and the HV20 is CMOS so there will certainly be differences, and not just with color.

Either "bigger" camera will certainly be easier to use in a feature setting (i.e., focus pulls using a lens ring, not a little bead thingy, zoom rocker vs. "thumb slider", etc.) ... but from what I've seen, the HV20 actually produces (IMHO) a better image. If you can deal with its quirks and its toylike appearance, my preference would be all HV20, maybe with a 35mm adapter to get some different looks.

I'm no post guy, but as far as timecode goes, people coped without it for years, I'd think in this age of truly frame-accurate NLEs it's gotta be surmountable, especially after everything's reverse-telecined into 24 progressive frames per second. Get a good old-fashioned clap slate and give 'er a try!

[24Peter]

I assuming you're talking about a low/no budget feature (or else you probably wouldn't be using the HV20). In that case an external sound recorder is OK but the sound I'm getting out of my HV20 with a Beachtek adapter and AT897 shotgun is quite good. If you have two cameras running you have a chance to record four separate tracks of audio which could be a lifesaver.

I haven't done it, but I heard people are mixing A1 and HV20 footage no problem - PROVIDED - you remove pulldown first on the HV20 24p footage (the A1 outputs it's 24F footage at 23.97fps)

I think the V1U is a true progressive scan HDV camera which, like the HV20, outputs it's 24p files as 60i, so you should be OK there too.

On the timecode thing, I think you're left out in the cold. You'll need an audio/visual slate to match up your footage.

[neocastillo]

I think 24Peter gave some good advice and I second it. Use both HV20's to capture the audio. They are quite acceptable. This way you have two audio capture devices and now have a choice of the best audio of the two.

[blacksuitstudio]

I've been pondering the same thing. I am waiting for a RED camera and it looks like that will be the end of the year or later, but this little HV20 has my head a buzz with ideas. I can only imagine the type of shots that it can get being rigged into all sorts or crazy gear, not to mention being able to get into tight spaces.

If I shoot my feature it will be a $20k kind of project shot over 12 days in October. I will be shooting on two HV20's with, more than likely, a Brevis adapter. I WILL be recording separate audio to an external device.

I will still be using on camera audio, made better with external mics, but most of the time I will refer back to the duel-system dialogue for a cleaner track.

I've done a feature before and many other projects and bad sound is one of the biggest tell-tale signs of amateur work.

Best of luck.

Jason

[Gene Latimer]

. . . I WILL be recording separate audio to an external device.

I will still be using on camera audio, made better with external mics, but most of the time I will refer back to the duel-system dialogue for a cleaner track.

Thanks for everyone's input on these questions.

Jason, have you thought about what you might be using for external audio capture? I haven't researched that piece yet.

Part of my thinking is just freeing the sound recordist from being physically tied to the camera operator(s). that should provide various benefits.

[CJDaniels]

How funny, I am contemplating the same thing, I am going to convince two of my clients to purchase one so I can play with three. I plan on using a Zoom H4.

I think it will be fun to try.

[tkmslee]

I assuming you're talking about a low/no budget feature (or else you probably wouldn't be using the HV20). In that case an external sound recorder is OK but the sound I'm getting out of my HV20 with a Beachtek adapter and AT897 shotgun is quite good. If you have two cameras running you have a chance to record four separate tracks of audio which could be a lifesaver.

I haven't done it, but I heard people are mixing A1 and HV20 footage no problem - PROVIDED - you remove pulldown first on the HV20 24p footage (the A1 outputs it's 24F footage at 23.97fps)

I think the V1U is a true progressive scan HDV camera which, like the HV20, outputs it's 24p files as 60i, so you should be OK there too.

On the timecode thing, I think you're left out in the cold. You'll need an audio/visual slate to match up your footage.

Good advice! Since the camcorder pulls in high quality audio (I think it uses 16bit) it will record whatever you put into it. So, make sure you have good sound coming from a beachtek or something similar. I have been very happy from the sound I get from the camcorder coming from some pro mics it does the job well.

[Mark Dog2]

the A! footage wil match fine with the hv20 there similar and with some color correction they wont know the diffrence

[Pom16/10e]

my two cents :
-audio : yes, external is always the way to go anyhow

-timecode : be prepared to spend a lil extra-time synching your takes, but multicam editing in FCP works great (once they are synced). Just make sure you have a clap ala old school in every take and you'll be fine