Maybe a bad time to troll/joke come to think of it and who he may be dealing with!my bad.
I hope it can be resolved and that they can give you some more time, buddy. With the economy and all the people who are on the fringes aren't ones you want to mess with... It could be a lot of money for them! Be safe!
Just keep the lines of communication open with them. If you do have to cut ties it's better to make THEM get tired of you than you get tired of dealing with them, to avoid any bad vibes.
Yep, that'd be the lesser of the two evils.Originally Posted by blondandfun
Personally, I wouldn't have taken the job in the first place. No amount of money could induce me to listen to rap. Filming it would make me feel like an accomplice to something unsavoury!
Dude, I'm telling you. These guys are so damn annoying to work for. They demand demand demand, and they take the art of video production and editing for granted. They think they can just snap their fingers and their expectations will appear before them like room service. They're morons, plain and simple.
The last time I worked with these "Artists" I told them I wasn't going to change anything after they changed their minds 3 times on me. Ended up dropping a payday just so I didn't have to deal with them anymore.
You're the artist here, they're nobody.
On one hand you're a professional. That means accepting things that you don't like and situations that don't always go your way. On the other hand, everyone has their standards and you can't fault a man for saying there are some things he won't do. But rap is a viable economic industry. So much so that saying you won't accept material from there, will only hurt you financially in the end. I don't know a whole lot about it, but if they ever come to me for a production, irritating or not, I am certainly willing to learn.Yep, that'd be the lesser of the two evils.
Personally, I wouldn't have taken the job in the first place. No amount of money could induce me to listen to rap. Filming it would make me feel like an accomplice to something unsavoury!
Actually, Krane, I'm not a professional film-maker. I'm a rank amateur.
So I guess it's easier for me to say that there are some jobs I wouldn't take on. But I think even if I was making my living from video, I would still be selective in choosing jobs.
I think that if I was offered a project for which I not only had no empathy, but actively disliked, I'd be wasting my time and theirs if I accepted it. I don't believe that being a professional obliges one to tackle a job that you're not 100% certain you can do justice to. In fact, I think the opposite is the case. For example, I wouldn't hire a film-maker to make a doco about bull-fighting if he happened to mention that he's a member of PETA. And I think he'd be unprofessional if he agreed to do it.
Entertainment videos stand or falls on their, well, entertainment value. And if the film-maker doesn't find the subject entertaining, he's going to have trouble making it entertaining for anyone else. It's like the man said, "The trouble with movies as a business is that it's an art, and the trouble with movies as art is that it's a business."
Well, depending on your own "directorial angle", he might be just the right person for the job!
True. But if I was Ernest Hemingway wanting a doco made on bull-fighting, say....Well, depending on your own "directorial angle", he might be just the right person for the job!
That would be the exact reason for not accepting the job.I don't know a whole lot about it
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
If at all possible I'd try to make the client happy even if it means putting in some extra time. I don't mean the client is always right and it is not your job to cater to every crazy demand but, as has been suggested before, it is a communication problem and you were part of that communication.
HFS21 l HF100 l DM100 l Zoom H1
If I'm asked for something, be it a service or just information, and I know I can't provide it, I'll always refer the person to somebody else who can. I'll never just say no, and leave it at that.
This is a sound principle for any business, because even though the potential client has to go elsewhere, he remembers who pointed him in the right direction. So you keep your rep, plus you make an ally of the other company.
I've got many a request for making TV commercial animation or special effects that I know would be practically impossible to do, with the budget available. In cases like that, I try to be as honest as possible, and say "Sorry, can't do it for that budget, but if you are willing to reduce the requirements, then it might be possible" - sometimes, I do get the job, and make it to the new specifications, sometimes, the client goes to another filmmaker, and I think: "Either the client, or that filmmaker is stupid, if the job gets done as such, at that price"...
Never lost a likable, sagacious client, yet.
That's exactly how it's done. But I admit that I'd prefer a documentary as a project over any video. So it's no like I don't get it. Still, there always the collaboration on a project: If I don't know a lot about sports or rap music, or whatever in general, you can always find a colleague who does. How else do you learn about anything if you don't put yourself out there?
I've always be taught you have to at least be willing try at a new project, or why even do what you're doing? Just do this stuff as a hobby and at least there won't be any dissatisfied clients. I've watched many documentaries throughout my life, and that's how I came to love them, and learn about how they're made.
Through some of the interview, the people that make them tell their stories of their difficulties before, during and after. Sometimes, they even admit that it was something they had never done before, or didn't want to do at all (imagine if Michelangelo had turned down the Sistine Chapel ceiling).
Anyway, there is always a chance a project could fail. But in other cases, it could also turns out to be your greats work. Just don't give the client any unrealistic expectations. But you never know unless you try.
Last edited by Krane; 2012 August 26th at 05:01.
That's me.
The only thing I ever watch on TV are documentaries and the News. Far as I'm concerned, the only thing worth owning a TV for is the documentaries. All other television product is excrement, imo.I've watched many documentaries throughout my life, and that's how I came to love them, and learn about how they're made.
I've studied a lot of tutorials on the art of making docos, particularly with regard to the pacing and structure. I've been preparing all the family photos for quite some time now. I'd like to put together a high quality doco of my family's history, going back to the late 1800s. Ken Burns will be helping me, of course.
Many of the photos will be amenable to that fake 3d effect he uses, so I'll be doing that a lot.
As young engineer I wondered what to do when meeting competitors at trade shows. I very quickly learned that competitors are the most important support system and customer base. All it takes is integrity.
HFS21 l HF100 l DM100 l Zoom H1
Go for it, but keep it short(ish)!
Half an hour is my own ideal - longer ones tend to become boring, at least in places. If necessary, make several, with distinct but different subjects.
Also, I'd plan the doco as related, but clearly separate sequences (no longer than 4 to max 7 minutes), each with a theme of its own. In that way, you'll keep the viewers' interest piqued - they never get to the point of being bored.
22 minutes will be half a broadcast hour. Good timing.
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
Yep, thanks, J. That's exactly how I was thinking. Even for a sympathetic audience a doco can get tedious, like a loud family member who's always talking about himself. It's important to vary the coverage, and the focus of attention, so that everyone in the audience will be expecting to get an honourable mention at some point. And I don't want anyone saying, "Oh, you left out that time we went to yada yada!"
I have so many old B/W family photographs, some even dating back to when my parents were toddlers, (circa 1916), that I expect it'll be at least a three-part doco. And my father was an avid photographer all his life. Everywhere the family went, he took his Voigtlander. We must have been the most photographed kids in the state. And he processed and enlarged the photos himself. I used to agitate the prints in the fixer for him. I think it was the utter fascination of seeing an image of life projected on to a blank white paper (albeit in negative), that started my fascination with movies.
I've watched your own family memoirs, J, and I like that style. Mine will be of necessity a bit more static, being all still photos, but I want to make it much the same in structure. Of course, it will be a feat to talk one of my siblings into getting in front of the camera to do the "living room interview". I might have to promise a good bottle of wine, or something
And that's where the Ken Burns technique can come in. It can take the monotony out of static photos.If you can't do it with them, then do it around them. Recall the story telling intro of the 1970's Walton's TV series? A good clear narrator's voice can do wonders in lieu of the real thing.but I want to make it much the same in structure. Of course, it will be a feat to talk one of my siblings into getting in front of the camera to do the "living room interview". I might have to promise a good bottle of wine, or something
As for me, I am planning to produce a documentary called "The Human Animal" (I know, it's a working title) that will chronicle various professions and the people that chose them. It's tentatively scheduled to be completed by Fall 2014. But that all depends on the popularity of my short expected to be completed by Winter 2013. The former is a necessity, the latter a luxury.
I had intended to post selected excerpts from those productions as well as segments of the screenplays I'm working on (part of the reason I'm here) for feedback. But recent activities have led me to reconsider the wisdom of those plans. Anyway, good luck on your project. I look forward to one day seeing it in it's completed form.
Yes, and as I say many of the photos are perfect for the technique. Group shots predominate in our collection, as well as seaside and bush scenes. My father was always trying for something better than just snapshots.
Yep, I've been honing my speaking skills. Trouble is, the good old Aussie drone is still there. Hard to modify it, too. Still, with a lot of practice... and listening to the likes of Paul Vaughan. I think it's all down to correct breathing and paced pauses.If you can't do it with them, then do it around them. Recall the story telling intro of the 1970's Walton's TV series? A good clear narrator's voice can do wonders in lieu of the real thing.
Thanks. Good luck on yours, too. Sounds interesting. Sounds like you're taking an anthropological approach to the subject. I think that kind of theme is always fascinating.As for me, I am planning to produce a documentary called "The Human Animal" (I know, it's a working title) that will chronicle various professions and the people that chose them. It's tentatively scheduled to be completed by Fall 2014. But that all depends on the popularity of my short expected to be completed by Winter 2013. The former is a necessity, the latter a luxury.
I had intended to post selected excerpts from those productions as well as segments of the screenplays I'm working on (part of the reason I'm here) for feedback. But recent activities have led me to reconsider the wisdom of those plans. Anyway, good luck on your project. I look forward to one day seeing it in it's completed form.
Great minds think alike, I've heard. Were they talking about us??
Referring to me, again?
Another parallel - only that my father used a Rolleicord...
Whatever - deep breath - you do - gasp - don't - try to - whew - emulate - David - wheeze - Attenborough !
LOL!!! I love his documentaries, and he definitely knows his stuff, but I always find myself having to take deep sighs after listening to him for a while. I keep trying to breathe for him!Whatever - deep breath - you do - gasp - don't - try to - whew - emulate - David - wheeze - Attenborough!
Yep, Mister J. I thought way back that you're my Finnish doppelgänger. It's uncanny, actually.Great minds think alike, I've heard. Were they talking about us??
Another parallel - only that my father used a Rolleicord...
Last edited by Jim E; 2012 August 27th at 03:01.
Here's a parody ad shown on Finnish TV:
http://www.tvspots.tv/video/1857/HARTWALL--FIREFLIES
(watch full screen)
Haha! Good one!
In the 70s/80 there was a guy here, Harry Butler, who had a show called "In the Wild". He was noted for sticking his hand under rocks and into hollow logs to grab critters and beasties. It seemed reckless, and looked very dangerous, but he did it with complete nonchalance. It's one of the things that made the show so popular, I think.
But maybe he had someone check under those rocks first...
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