I am DONE with my HV30... Suggestions?

[danielhv]

I goofed up today (My own fault, I know) and recorded over something that cannot be replaced . Complete accident, and my fault I know... regardless, I am DONE with tapes. Too much hastle. I'm looking for something to replace my HV30. I do not need an "upgrade" so to speak, as I came no where near mastering this one... shot in auto mode 99% of the time. Just want to get some feedback on what's good a good deal out there. I have a Canon 60D, but don't like the manual zoom or focus aspect.

Suggestions? I'd like to stay under $500? I know nothing about other brands... any editing I do is in vegas usually... and I have a hefty computer so I'm not worried about the ability to edit AVCHD.

Also, I'll be selling my HV30 as soon as I find a replacement, so keep your eyes peeled!

[Bif]

Two suggestions:

One: Check out the current HF M series camcorders, some should fit your budget and operating features will be close to what you're used to on the HV30.

Two: Take that 60D and learn it, it's not that hard. Meet what you don't like head on and master it. I have an article I wrote on full manual control in video mode with Canon DSLRs that can simplify most of it and give you control you never imagined, if you want it PM me with the request and an email address I can send it to. It's also working on the Panasonic GH2's I'm using now.

I'd go both ways above.

Bruce Foreman

[Krane]

It sounds like your issues are a function of the operator, not the camera?

[Dr. Benway]

Look for that dude on this forum that was looking for donations - donate your HV to him if you like.

[STUDIO32MID]

Whats wrong with the hv30? I can take it off your hands if you want? Hahah!

[Krane]

I goofed up today (My own fault, I know) and recorded over something that cannot be replaced . Complete accident, and my fault I know... regardless, I am DONE with tapes. Too much hastle. I'm looking for something to replace my HV30. I do not need an "upgrade" so to speak, as I came no where near mastering this one... shot in auto mode 99% of the time. Just want to get some feedback on what's good a good deal out there. I have a Canon 60D, but don't like the manual zoom or focus aspect.

Suggestions? I'd like to stay under $500? I know nothing about other brands... any editing I do is in vegas usually... and I have a hefty computer so I'm not worried about the ability to edit AVCHD.

Also, I'll be selling my HV30 as soon as I find a replacement, so keep your eyes peeled!

Under $500? That's a step down. You'd be going from a Honda Accord to a Honda Civic. Can you live with that?

When the HVxx were first introduced, they retailed from $800-$1100. I know today you can get a lot more camera for the money, but if I were you, I'd wait until I could at least afford a parallel move.

[Almohada]

Up next: HV40

[wildside50]

Two suggestions:

One: Check out the current HF M series camcorders, some should fit your budget and operating features will be close to what you're used to on the HV30.

Two: Take that 60D and learn it, it's not that hard. Meet what you don't like head on and master it. I have an article I wrote on full manual control in video mode with Canon DSLRs that can simplify most of it and give you control you never imagined, if you want it PM me with the request and an email address I can send it to. It's also working on the Panasonic GH2's I'm using now.

I'd go both ways above.

Bruce Foreman

I respect your opinion Bruce, but I'd like to advocate AGAINST the HF M series. It offers a great picture, good auto conrols, easy to handle (though the touch screen isn't my favorite) but it has one fatal flaw. It's "wide-angle" is REDICULOUSLY tight. It is unusable indoors, and outdoors you better get some distance twixt you and the subject. I sold my HF M41 at quite a loss just because I couldn't handle the horrible focal lengths. The 35mm equivalencies is 43.6-436mm. That's a great tele, but horrible wide. IF you've ever done any photography, you know that a 35mm normal lens is usually considered 50mm. You just barely can get a normal FOV. And to be considered Wide Angle, you're talking 35mm or less.

The camera I would recomend is the Panasonic HDC-TM900. It gets mostly fantastic reviews, but to me more importantly it can go as wide as 35mm. 35 vs 43.6 might not seem like a huge deal, but I assure you the FOV is substantially different. Of course I say this having never used one, so I'm sure it has it's quirks.

But of course I am with Bruce on the front of using the 60D and learning it, though that doesn't account for times you just wanna point and shoot. But for those moments, I contend a $150 PAS camera, or flip cam kinda deal is a solid bet. The 60D can be reserved for the rest.

[vince]

HMM, the HVxx has the same lens characteristics. And a wide angle lens can take care of a need to go wider. The HF M41 has actually a setting to adjust for using a wide angle lens. I fully agree that for the money, the HF Mxx is hard to beat. I added three HF M40's (refurbished) to my equipment list and have had no regrets.

[onefortynine]

Can I semi hijack or should I start my own thread? I also would like to move away from tapes and towards a not too expensive DSLR(no 7D or 5D).
Looking for something with as good, if not better, HD video quality as the HV30 that offers the option of auto focus as well as manual. I already own a 1000D so I can use my lenses (and build a collection of more ).
I can still see myself using the HV30 in addition to a DSLR. I love it but the controls are a pain for manual focus work.
again, I will start another thread if I am stepping on toes.

[Bif]

I respect your opinion Bruce, but I'd like to advocate AGAINST the HF M series. It offers a great picture, good auto conrols, easy to handle (though the touch screen isn't my favorite) but it has one fatal flaw. It's "wide-angle" is REDICULOUSLY tight. It is unusable indoors, and outdoors you better get some distance twixt you and the subject. I sold my HF M41 at quite a loss just because I couldn't handle the horrible focal lengths. The 35mm equivalencies is 43.6-436mm. That's a great tele, but horrible wide. IF you've ever done any photography, you know that a 35mm normal lens is usually considered 50mm.

I understand what you say here, but with the HV20 and HF100 that "not wide enough" problem was easily solved with a 52mm threaded 0.45x wide angle auxiliary (and necessary "step up" rings). Got me to what looks like a 35mm equivalent of 28mm or so. I still have a pair of HF100s and frequently use that setup.

As far as "having done any photography", made my living that way for the better part of 3 decades. For the PJ work I did for a few years the 35mm lens was a favorite of many folks for the "wide normal" perspective it gave. I frequently use the Lumix 20mm on GH2's and an Olympus E-P3 for close to the same perspective.

Can I semi hijack or should I start my own thread? I also would like to move away from tapes and towards a not too expensive DSLR(no 7D or 5D).
Looking for something with as good, if not better, HD video quality as the HV30 that offers the option of auto focus as well as manual. I already own a 1000D so I can use my lenses (and build a collection of more ).
I can still see myself using the HV30 in addition to a DSLR. I love it but the controls are a pain for manual focus work.

You have perhaps 2 different paths to look at here. The new Canon T4i would allow you to use your current lenses you have for the 1000D. Auto focus is usable in still photo mode and works quite well, but video is another story. There are two lenses coming out for the T4i that will allow some measure of continuous autofocus in video mode but I hear the implementation is not comparable to what you get with the HV series.

2nd path (the one I've taken) is the Panasonic GH2 ($785.17 right now at B&H with 14-42 "kit" lens). I don't know if the price will drop first or if existing stock will sell out fast, the GH3 has been announced and typically folks rush to buy the current model so prices may stay up where they are now.

The GH2's should start showing up in more numbers on the used market.

The basic prime lenses available are not prohibitively expensive but are excellent quality and MANY provide a "fair" implementation of continuous autofocus in video mode. The 14-42 "kit" lens, the Lumix 14mm f2.5 (28mm equiv) the Panasonic Leica DG Summilux 25mm f1.4, and the Olympus Zuiko 45mm f1.8, all excellent sharp optics. The Lumix 20mm f1.7 does does not do continuous autofocus but I don't that function with it as both "single" autofocus and Manual focus do what I need out of that optic.

Both the T4i and the GH2 have touchscreen operation (Canon is just catching up to Panasonic in this regard), the GH2 implementation is the slickest I've ever seen. Both cameras offer very workable manual control in video mode.

The GH2 is a smaller camera that might not be a fit for largish hands (I'm either on a tripod or a shoulder brace most of the time), but has an electronic eyelevel viewfinder negating the need for a "loupe" to see the image in daylight, and both cameras have an "articulating" LCD.

The GH2 is lighter, the "native" lenses for it are much smaller and weigh a lot less than Canon, and almost all other brand "legacy" lenses can be adapted to the GH2 although EOS lenses will for now require a VERY EXPENSIVE adapter. I've stuck with "native" (Micro Four Thirds) glass for mine.

Bruce Foreman

[Rainer]

Wait a few weeks and have a look at an EOS M.

[Daniel Rutter]

I recommend staying away from DSLR's if you're shooting events. Traditional camcorders are your most likely candidates!

In fact, if you can allow yourself the spenditure... go for something like the XA10. That camera is something I really wish I could add to my kit. For me personally, I'm looking to offload my HV30's and move towards something card based. I shoot with two Panasonic GH series cameras, the GH1 and GH2... but they are close to useless for event work by themselves. I cannot stand the look of stock firmware on both cameras, and while the GH1 isn't affected shooting-wise with hacks... the GH2 loses extended shooting times in favor of great IQ, and suddenly my $50 32gb cards are only good for an hours use.
I'm considering purchasing a Panasonic camcorder, or even one of their hybrid cameras with power lenses built in. I was looking at their FZ200. It has a nice zoom range, and a constant 2.8 aperature which is fine for most uses except complete darkness. I believe that the Personal-view hacking team are looking at this camera, and if they can unlock a somewhat higher bitrate for this camera... it'll easily fall into my kit bag at some point.

Anyway, go camcorders if you have the budget. As someone who shoots with what he has, I recommend shooting camcorders... and leave the DSLR for film work, or as B-roll for any event work you do.

[onefortynine]

I recommend staying away from DSLR's if you're shooting events. Traditional camcorders are your most likely candidates!

Im not sure I will be shooting events. I would like to start making some short films, probably starting with quick music docos of my friends. thats where I would imagine, once I learn, I would use the manual focus. other than that I would like to use it for point and shoot family occasions, holidays etc. An all-rounder is what Im saying I guess.
The XA10 looks fantastic but I think it might be overkill for me. Any opinion of the HF G10? it looks like the same camera but without the XLR attachments and handle? and I quite like the manual focus ring but this camera would definitely sit at the very top of my price range.

Wait a few weeks and have a look at an EOS M.

I think I would rule out the EOS M, simply because I like the look and feel of a DSLR or camcorder. Is that shallow?

You have perhaps 2 different paths to look at here. The new Canon T4i would allow you to use your current lenses you have for the 1000D. Auto focus is usable in still photo mode and works quite well, but video is another story. There are two lenses coming out for the T4i that will allow some measure of continuous autofocus in video mode but I hear the implementation is not comparable to what you get with the HV series.

2nd path (the one I've taken) is the Panasonic GH2 ($785.17 right now at B&H with 14-42 "kit" lens). I don't know if the price will drop first or if existing stock will sell out fast, the GH3 has been announced and typically folks rush to buy the current model so prices may stay up where they are now. Bruce Foreman

The T4i looks nice too. It is the EOS 650D here in Europe I think. Again, if the autofocus in video is decent enough to handle general family/holiday/point and shoot stuff I would be happy with that. And then if I wanted to (try) get creative I can use the manual focus.

[Rainer]

The XA10 looks fantastic but I think it might be overkill for me. Any opinion of the HF G10? it looks like the same camera but without the XLR attachments and handle?
I think I would rule out the EOS M, simply because I like the look and feel of a DSLR or camcorder. Is that shallow?

G10, good choice, it just about is the same as an XA10. If you feel the need for XLR, you're probably better looking at an XF100, if you can get around the horrible form. If you only sometimes need XLR use a Zoom H4n. Canon doesn't make it easy. Not shallow, but the trouble with DSLRs is they have a mechanical mirror. It's that which dictates the form, it's a concession to archaic technology and no reason to like it. While its OK for stills it just gets in the way of video making - that alone is enough reason to get a GH3. But if you want something equivalent to super 35mm you're looking at the C sensor M, which Canon has clearly aimed at video makers.

[cgbier]

G10, good choice, it just about is the same as an XA10. If you feel the need for XLR, you're probably better looking at an XF100, if you can get around the horrible form.

I didn't get the XF for its beautiful looks,must rather for its beautiful images.
The G10 is a great camera (sans the horrible AVCHD and the touchscreen). For XLR you don't need an H4. The H1 with a 20 dollar adaptor is more than sufficient.... NTG2 plus the adaptor plus H1 = not too shabby sound

[onefortynine]

G10, good choice, it just about is the same as an XA10. If you feel the need for XLR, you're probably better looking at an XF100, if you can get around the horrible form. If you only sometimes need XLR use a Zoom H4n. Canon doesn't make it easy. Not shallow, but the trouble with DSLRs is they have a mechanical mirror. It's that which dictates the form, it's a concession to archaic technology and no reason to like it. While its OK for stills it just gets in the way of video making - that alone is enough reason to get a GH3. But if you want something equivalent to super 35mm you're looking at the C sensor M, which Canon has clearly aimed at video makers.

I didn't get the XF for its beautiful looks,must rather for its beautiful images.
The G10 is a great camera (sans the horrible AVCHD and the touchscreen). For XLR you don't need an H4. The H1 with a 20 dollar adaptor is more than sufficient.... NTG2 plus the adaptor plus H1 = not too shabby sound

I think the XF100 is way out of my price range. I wouldn't be too upset if I didnt have XLR. I would be happy with a good quality 1/8" connector/converter (like the $20 one you have linked above).

So really its down to this for me at the moment:
1. EOS T4i - Great DSLR for stills. great DSLR for manually focused video. not so wonderful for autofocus video?
2. HF G10 - Great camcorder to replace the tape based HV30. great for manual and auto focus. Stills quality compared to DSLR is non existent.

So with option 1 I could retire the EOS 1000d and keep the HV30 as a 2nd camcorder if I wanted to take the T4i in hand and switch to still photography while still having a video recording (just in case I am on that all important shoot )
Or, with option 2, I would still need to hold onto the HV30 as a 2nd camcorder but I would also need to bring the EOS 1000d with me in case I wanted decent stills. And I know I would bring it too. I cant seem to leave any camera behind me when I am going somehere. have a GoPro too so that would be 4 cameras I would be lugging around with me.

It looks like I may be starting to swing towards the T4i but the autofocus in video mode could end up driving me nuts
maybe I should buy both - I wish!

[Dr. Benway]

not so wonderful for autofocus video?

Terrible, consider AF video non-existent.

[cgbier]

Well, whenever I go to the eye doctor, he doesn't show me any new frames, but gives me brochures from dog breeders. Nevertheless, I don't have too many issues with focussing manually when I don't shoot on the run. It just needs a bit practice and getting used to it.

I started my photog "career" before AF cams were on the market though....

[MrMicah]

not so wonderful for autofocus video?

I think the autofocus is fine, but the continuous autofocus requires specialised lenses.

If you are nor going to require continuous autofocus then it may suit you.

[onefortynine]

I think I need to go to a shop and try one out. my friend has an EOS 550D. I could try that out for a day if that has the same AF system?

[MrMicah]

I believe that the 550D has an autofocus similar to the 650D (but the 650D has more cross points and is technically improved)

I don't think that the 550D can do continuous AF at all.

The 650D can do it with only 2 special lenses at the moment.

So using a 550D would give you a reasonable feel for using a 650D without the special continuous AF.

[Dr. Benway]

I have a Canon 60D, but don't like the manual zoom or focus aspect.

So really its down to this for me at the moment:
1. EOS T4i - Great DSLR for stills. great DSLR for manually focused video. not so wonderful for autofocus video?

Sounds like you want AF video - my advice is stay away from DSLR's. Manual focus and onto rack focus is the best DSLR's have to offer.

[onefortynine]

Sounds like you want AF video - my advice is stay away from DSLR's. Manual focus and onto rack focus is the best DSLR's have to offer.

I want it all
I want something with a focus ring for when (if) I do some amateur film making. and point and shoot, switch your brain off, ease of use for when I just want to capture something simple.
the HF G10 is probably the answer isn't it? I just don't want it to be, would rather replace the EOS 1000d. can't have it all I suppose

[cgbier]

Why not going with the G10 now and put your beer can refund aside for a T5i?

Even though the HV30 is not anything I'd call a still cam, I caught myself very often to take pictures with it. If you know what you are doing, you can get some decent results out of it. It is just handier to carry a handycam around than a full fledged DSLR setup.