HDV PF25 --> what workflow in FCP?

[Melbourne]

Hi all.

I've just spent a whole day learning about HV20's HDV (PF25) format and I now understand that it is actually 1080 50i and not 1080 25p as I initially thought.

What I couldn't find anywhere is:

What workflow should be used in Final Cut Pro 7 for HDV PF25 footage (HDV 1080i50 or HDV 1080p25)?

If it's HDV 1080i50, how do you export it to 1080p25 proper?

Greatly appreciate any help.

Cheers.

[cgbier]

Are you using Compressor for the export? Then just use a 25p preset. Compressor does the rest.

[Melbourne]

Are you using Compressor for the export? Then just use a 25p preset. Compressor does the rest.

When I use the 25p preset ( I assume you mean HDV 1080p25) and then try to add my HDV PF25 (HDV1080i50) footage to a 1080p25 sequence I get the "Change sequence settings to match the clip settings?" message. Some advise to mach it (see page 3 here ), some advise not to (see post 2 here ). I'm really confused. Now I don't even know why I would want to shoot in this not so FCP friendly format.

Let me rephrase my question in order to cut the long story short, at the same time going to the very beginning:

What format (SD, HDV, HDV PF25) would you use if you had to shoot a short art film that needs to be delivered on a DVD for screening in class?

I thank you all in advance for any guidance.

Cheers.

[Janke]

Depends on the visual style you want. Some consider 25PF more "filmic", and 50i "videolike".

Both are edited in the 50i format, since they both are, technically speaking. It's just that both fields in 25PF are recorded simultaneously, not sequentially like in 50i.

A DVD can handle both formats.

[Melbourne]

Depends on the visual style you want. Some consider 25PF more "filmic", and 50i "videolike".

Both are edited in the 50i format, since they both are, technically speaking. It's just that both fields in 25PF are recorded simultaneously, not sequentially like in 50i.

A DVD can handle both formats.

Thanks Janke.

I wasn't aware that DVD can handle both formats...I presume you mean as they are (without any alterations of 25PF footage: such as field dominance in FCP, etc.). Does that mean that they are treated the same way in FCP as well as on a DVD and the 'filmic' (progressive) look associated with 25PF is achieved when a DVD player couples its 50 interlaced fields into 25 unified frames (all scan lines of each frame captured at the same time: effectively simulating progressive scan)?

[Janke]

Yes, yes and yes.

[Melbourne]

Ok. I get the DVD side of things now. Thanks Janke!

But, what about a true progressive 25fps HD format of my HDV 25PF (1080i50) footage for computer viewing or the web (1080p25 and 720p25)?

Is there a preset setting in Compressor that can do that or some complex tweaking needs to be done?

[cgbier]

If you want to use 1080 or 720 is solely up to you. Compressor exports whatever you set it to. There's a whole mother load of presets. Just use the one that fits you best.

You can do complex tweaking if you think it is necessary, but that is left over to very advanced users. If you don't know what or how to do it, you don't need it

[Melbourne]

So, in FCP the point is to use HDV 1080i50 timeline for both HV20's HD formats (HDV and HDV PF25). Compressor can export to whatever you need: interlaced for DVD or progressive for computer viewing or the internet.

However, when you use HDV PF25 format in a 1080i50 timeline that will be exported as 1080p25 what happens to all the effects you might have, such as text? If your FCP project is 50i, whatever effect you place on that timeline will be 50i (interlaced). Exporting native interlaced graphics to progressive is not really ideal.

Is there any software that can "transform" HDV PF25 (1080i50) to 1080p25 proper? Can Compressor do this?

Also, is there an "option" to capture HDV PF25 as 1080p25, where this transformation would happen during the capture?

Having HDV PF25 as 1080p25 proper is the ideal if you're exporting for computer viewing or the internet. That way you would create a 1080p25 project in FCP and not worry about having Canon's progressive-wannabe format (HDV PF25) along with interlaced text.

Any thoughts?

[cgbier]

Forget about that PF and p nonsense. It doesn't matter to Compressor. Your footage, regardless the source, will be exported to whatever codec and framerate you set it to.

[Melbourne]

Forget about that PF and p nonsense. It doesn't matter to Compressor. Your footage, regardless the source, will be exported to whatever codec and framerate you set it to.

I'm not talking about footage. I'm talking about other stuff (text, wipes, etc.) you might put on that (1080i50) timeline to be exported to 1080p25. Others here have raised the issue before: "If you edit in 50i, your slow motions, wipes and DVE moves will look like it is video-like. To me, it looks strange to see 25p mixed with 50i effects. Even fade in/out don't look the same..." (see this post)

Can anyone else confirm that my concern in the previous post is indeed "NONSENSE" as Cgbier claims?

[cgbier]

Oh, that's what you mean! Your answer is in this post of the linked thread:

A solution to 25p in FCP 6.0.1:

1. Choose the HDV 1080p25 Easy Setup. You need to edit in a 1080p25 sequence, ProRes 422 or HDV.

2. After capturing footage, select all your clips in the browser, then scroll to the field dominance column, right click and choose "None". If you've already assembled an edit, you'll need to change the field dominance of each clip on your timeline with Item Properties > Format.

If you don't set the field dominance, you'll see field doubling and quality loss.