Video Camera for Green Screen Work

[Ryan Martin]

Hi Everyone,

I am planning on creating fairly still green screen videos and am looking for a sub-$1,000 video camera that will do a good job (with good lighting of course).

I am going to be doing the videos indoors and they are going to be for internet marketing related videos where I am either doing product reviews or teaching, so I do not plan to move around too much.

I was originally looking at the Canon HV40, and it is still an option but I am curious to get opinions on if there is a better choice for under $1k. I would like it to have capabilities for audio-in as well because I will have a mic on my shirt.

Thanks in advance guys! And let me know if you need any more information.

[Krane]

Hi Everyone,

I am planning on creating fairly still green screen videos and am looking for a sub-$1,000 video camera that will do a good job (with good lighting of course).

I am going to be doing the videos indoors and they are going to be for internet marketing related videos where I am either doing product reviews or teaching, so I do not plan to move around too much.

I was originally looking at the Canon HV40, and it is still an option but I am curious to get opinions on if there is a better choice for under $1k. I would like it to have capabilities for audio-in as well because I will have a mic on my shirt.

Thanks in advance guys! And let me know if you need any more information.

For that price you will be operating at a serious deficit. The process of green screen require a lot of camera information and this lever of camera just does not support that. You will either need to seriously increase your budget (X2/3) or be satisfied with trying to enter a Honda Civic in the Indianapolis 500. I'd look for 4:2:2 but with today's electronics I guess anything may be possible?

[MrMicah]

Krane is much more experienced than I, but if you are showing your end product via the internet (with its inherent compromises of bandwidth, format resolution etc) I'm wondering if these weaknesses in the sharpness of the end display might also mean that any technical deficiencies in the quality of the green screen process are masked, or more easily forgiven by your audience?

I have played with green screen (literally played with the kids lego and a green cloth and minimal attention to lighting other than to eliminate harsh shadows). I managed to achieve some results which withstood casual inspection where people were more interested in the content of the presentation than in the technical features of it. Content will only get you so far, and only with the right audience dynamic, but its something to consider if it is relevant for your particular circumstances.

That said, the best possible camera for your needs (and maybe reasonable future growth of needs) is always a good investment.

Krane (or others) ... Would any of the sub- $1000 DSLRs be of use? Maybe the 500 - 550D's or something similar?

[cgbier]

Utter nonsense. The important thing is that you light your green screen correctly. Light up screen and talent separately, add a hair light/back light to your talent to prevent spill, make sure you have enough distance between screen and talent, and you're halfway there. I have shot green screen with an HV30 and the 4:2:2 XF100. Neither I, nor Final Cut have seen a difference (besides the fact that the XF has the better sensor in general, which can partially alleviated as long as you light your scene correctly). The choice of camera is basically secondary with modern keying algorithms in your NLE.

The only thing I'd be cautious with are DSLR with aliasing issues.

[Ryan Martin]

Utter nonsense. The important thing is that you light your green screen correctly. Light up screen and talent separately, add a hair light/back light to your talent to prevent spill, make sure you have enough distance between screen and talent, and you're halfway there. I have shot green screen with an HV30 and the 4:2:2 XF100. Neither I, nor Final Cut have seen a difference (besides the fact that the XF has the better sensor in general, which can partially alleviated as long as you light your scene correctly). The choice of camera is basically secondary with modern keying algorithms in your NLE.

The only thing I'd be cautious with are DSLR with aliasing issues.

Thanks for the response. I have three nice lights I purchased from TubeTape.com: 2 for the backdrop and 1 for the talent. I have sports cameras for everything else I do and cannot justify spending $1k+ on a video camera for just shooting internet marketing related videos.

I mainly just plan to stand there and talk: whether to explain things or recruit affiliates. I am using a crappy little Flip camcorder right now for the videos (not using green screen yet), so either way it will be a good improvement.

[cgbier]

There are plenty of handy cams available for 3-400 bucks. They mostly have the same sensor as the more expensive models, just less features (memory, mic jacks, manual settings,...). An HVxx would do the job fine.

Are you planning on a full body shot? If not, you might be able to work with one light for the screen and three lights (key, fill, hair) for you. Important is that the screen is lit as evenly as possible in the area close to your body. You can mask out the rest when you do the key in post. I have an old DJTV Production Notes feature on how to light green screen. I can upload it to my dropbox and send you the link tomorrow (have it in the office).

[cgbier]

Why green screen, btw? Can't you do environmental shots - office, shop surroundings? Issue with green screen in commercials is oftentimes that it either looks cheesy or is badly executed.

There comes another thought: If you have After Effects, you don't need a green screen at all. The Roto Brush is a fascinating tool! You just have to take care that you have a good contrast between your talent and your background. Roto Brush is not as fast as keying, but you don't have to lose much sleep over executing your shot.

[wgzn]

Utter nonsense. The important thing is that you light your green screen correctly. Light up screen and talent separately, add a hair light/back light to your talent to prevent spill, make sure you have enough distance between screen and talent, and you're halfway there.

absolutely agreed!!! if lit properly, you can even get success with old VHS.

The only thing I'd be cautious with are DSLR with aliasing issues.

yeah. just about ALL DSLRS will suffer some degree of aliasing. but the ONE with the LEAST aliasing / moire issue is the panasonic lumix GH2. ive used them extensively (though not for greenscreen. simply because i use my hpx170 for that) in many blind comparisons the GH2 bests even the high priced canon and nikon offerings.

you can pick up a body only deal at adorama rightnow for $750:
http://www.adorama.com/IPCDMCGH2KB.html
then you can put the rest of your money toward a "better than kit" lens.

[wgzn]

Roto Brush is not as fast as keying, but you don't have to lose much sleep over executing your shot.

true - BUT once you have one or two green shoots under your belt. the execution becomes pretty mindless.
with a good clean green clip, it takes about 75 seconds to key and you're done.

[Halsu]

As said, cameras like HV20 etc. Are plenty good enough for greenscreen. The 4:2:0 sampling in consumer cameras can cause stairstepping in the keying edges, but that can be filtered away rather easily in practice.
Proper backdrop and lighting are more important. When it comes to DSLR:s, their shallover depth of field is actually undesirable with greenscreen. The out-of-focus areas are pretty hard to key convincingly. Here is an example of HV20 greenscreen, a low budget commercial we did a few years back (in finnish, sorry). http://eki.pp.fi/temp/Era/Topcom/Top...i_final_08.mpg

[cgbier]

true - BUT once you have one or two green shoots under your belt. the execution becomes pretty mindless.
with a good clean green clip, it takes about 75 seconds to key and you're done.

I was thinking more of the shot itself, with all the cumbersome light setup and stuff. The software side is is pretty easy. FCP X pulls a close to perfect key with two mouse clicks in 90% of all cases I had so far.

[Ryan Martin]

I am planning on doing full body shots when I get a new greenscreen. The one I am going to be using for now is one of the 5x7 flex screens from TubeTape.

I went ahead and went with the Canon HV40 and will let you guys know how it works with what I am doing. I have used Sony Vegas in the past for video editing but may move to After Effects because it looks like it is quite a bit better.

Thanks for all the comments guys!

[Krane]

Utter nonsense. The important thing is that you light your green screen correctly. Light up screen and talent separately, add a hair light/back light to your talent to prevent spill, make sure you have enough distance between screen and talent, and you're halfway there. I have shot green screen with an HV30 and the 4:2:2 XF100. Neither I, nor Final Cut have seen a difference (besides the fact that the XF has the better sensor in general, which can partially alleviated as long as you light your scene correctly). The choice of camera is basically secondary with modern keying algorithms in your NLE.

The only thing I'd be cautious with are DSLR with aliasing issues.

The new Canon's 300 is $20,000, The RED epic package is about the same. The Arri Alexi is much more than $60,000. If all that were the case, then why would anyone in their right mind ever spend more than $1000 for a camera? The problems with your assertion is that acceptable quality for some is a lot lower than it is for others. I hope the OP realizes he needs to keep that in mind.

[Erik Bien]

For the OP's stated purpose (demo/lecture-style web video), where final delivery at 1280x720 with a relatively low bit-rate is probably more than good enough, above a certain minimum, the differences between "high-end" and "affordable" cameras will be something between "slight" and "undetectable" to most viewers. As others have already said, the lighting is going to have a far more noticeable impact on the success of your green screen shots.

As Halsu says, the lossy HDV compression isn't really a deal-breaker (and can be circumvented with an HDMI recorder if you really hate dealing with it), the HV series have surprisingly good little lenses, without much distortion or aberration, and the small chip means relatively deep depth of field, all generally advantages when shooting keys.

[Krane]

So that means I won...right?

[MrMicah]

So that means I won...right?

If it makes you feel better ... then you can think that.

The objective was actually to help out a new member with advice tailored to his circumstances.

[Krane]

The objective was actually to help out a new member with advice tailored to his circumstances.

In that case, my work here is done.

[wgzn]

I have used Sony Vegas in the past for video editing but may move to After Effects because it looks like it is quite a bit better.

aftereffects is NOT an editing package. its a compositing tool. though yeah, i guess you COULD technically edit something in aftereffects, but it would be like swimming in peanut butter.

imagine this: yes you CAN, technically dig a hole with your shoe, but a shovel would be far more efficient.

[Krane]

aftereffects is NOT an editing package. its a compositing tool. though yeah, i guess you COULD technically edit something in aftereffects, but it would be like swimming in peanut butter.

imagine this: yes you CAN, technically dig a hole with your shoe, but a shovel would be far more efficient.

Absolutely you can do some edit using AA. But also true that's not it's design purpose.

Still all of these software had some measure of crossover and the line can sometimes get blurred. But you certainly wouldn't go from a dedicated editor to a compositing software. That is, unless he was referring to the CSX suite? In which case, that would have been Premiere

[Ryan Martin]

Absolutely you can do some edit using AA. But also true that's not it's design purpose.

Still all of these software had some measure of crossover and the line can sometimes get blurred. But you certainly wouldn't go from a dedicated editor to a compositing software. That is, unless he was referring to the CSX suite? In which case, that would have been Premiere

I meant using a combination of After Effects and Premiere or something similar. I didn't state that very well.

You guys are pretty funny. I see arguments for every comment .

[MrMicah]

You have managed to join at a time when its been the most lively that I've seen. But I have not been here that long myself.

[cgbier]

Oh, then you guys haven't seen the great Huey and Bob show yet? - Check the religious thread or any discussion about Win vs. Mac

[MrMicah]

Agreed that the tech company thread has been lively too.

[cgbier]

That's rather harmless.

[wgzn]

You guys are pretty funny. I see arguments for every comment .

my motivation. is that the information in these threads is what many people use to make reasonably significant (to them) gear purchases.

the low cost of entry for cameras these days, has a ton of relatively inexperienced people making all kinds of wildly innacurate or simply incomplete statements. if i come across one of those, i feel the need to clarify for the benefit of those who may come later.

some people dont have the character to admit when they're wrong.