Corel taking over Avid / Pinnacle

[MrMicah]

I heard that Corel are taking over the Avid / Pinnacle range: Avid Studio, Pinnacle Studio, Dazzle etc.

I imagine that some of the more comnsumer-oriented NLE's products from Pinnacle and Corel have not been the first choice for the better film-makers here, but I've always had a soft spot for the Corel VideoStudio range. I have found is very easy to gain a reasonable level of proficiency with it in a short timeframe, and it has reasonable features for an advanced enthusiast.

I've dabbled a bit with Pinnacle and Avid Studio, so I'm interested to see how the product line might rationalise. As I think it was not that long ago that Avid acquired Pinnacle and was slowly phasing out the Pinnacle brand. I assume Corel will also do something like this: Corel brand from beginner to enthusiast and maybe draw on the Avid brand name for enthusiast to professional products.

I hope that some of the particularly good features in Pinnacle are blended into the Corel range and possibly some of the higher end tools from the Avid range might also be incorporated into the next release.

Am I being too naive to think that Corel VdeoStudio is a decent product for an enthusiast? Is it missing any tools that you think are essential or highly desirable?

[cgbier]

I doubt that any of the "real" AVID code will flow into the Corel/Pinnacle software. Different department. And what for? Avid isn't known for great coding. There's a reason they go down the drain.

(Nearly) any product beyond Movie Maker (and to an extent iMovie) is decent enough for the enthusiast. It is up to you what you expect from your software. I'm not familiar (anymore) with Corel products, but Pinnacle Studio was pretty decent.

[Netguru]

Corel made the announcement yesterday. http://www.the-digital-picture.com/N...aspx?News=2643 They just bought the consumer line from Avid.

[Erik Bien]

I never really understood why Avid bought Pinnacle in the first place. Although I'll admit I haven't been paying close attention, it seems Avid made few improvements to the software on their watch. Hopefully Corel will take a more active role. I think there's still a place for NLE software more capable than WMM but less expensive and daunting than ACS.

[Bif]

Avid's Pinnacle Studio 15 is perhaps the best version released to date. I've used Pinnacle Studio since a version prior to 7. 8 introduced DVD authoring, 9.4.3 was extemely stable, 10 was a disaster but was made reasonably workable by 10.5 and 10.7.

11 was one of the first to be able to handle AVCHD natively, 12 got even better. I skipped 14 but 15 (Avid's version) handles AVCHD from camcorders, Mov files from the Canon DSLRs, and AVCHD from Panasonic GH2s (on a Core i7 machine) as easily as we used to edit HDV on dual core machines.

Since version 11 Pinnacle Studio has been a computer resource HUNGRY beast when it comes to highly compressed video (AVCHD and other H.264 stuff) so it's taken a BEAST of a computer to edit with once you've left HDV.

But for an all-in-one package taking one from capture/import through editing (with lotsa features) to render to a variety of output options, it comes at a fairly modest price.

Bruce Foreman

[Krane]

I never really understood why Avid bought Pinnacle in the first place. Although I'll admit I haven't been paying close attention, it seems Avid made few improvements to the software on their watch. Hopefully Corel will take a more active role. I think there's still a place for NLE software more capable than WMM but less expensive and daunting than ACS.

To get a piece of the action I would guess. Apparently that didn't work out?

[cgbier]

I never really understood why Avid bought Pinnacle in the first place. Although I'll admit I haven't been paying close attention, it seems Avid made few improvements to the software on their watch.

Looking at AVID's financial situation over the last couple of years, one is tempted to assume they tried to use it as a cash cow. Seems to have back fired though. AVID is in even deeper trouble now.

[Rainer]

Someone on another forum said it: Corel is where old programs go to die.

[MrMicah]

Well if Corel picked up some of the Avid / Pinnacle intellectual property at a death's door price, thats probably to their advantage. They have certainly developed the original Ulead product since they acquired it.

[cgbier]

How many video editors does Corel now have in their portfolio? It seems they are pretty much collectors. Not sure if that is wise business with too many similar products (with a developer team each) in their line IMHO.

[MrMicah]

I think that they really only have the one NLE video product: Videostudio (but maybe a 'ordinary' and 'ultimate' version)

They also have a disk authoring product and a 3D / animation / titling effect product I think. They might also package these products with photo editing or paint products into 'suites' like Adobe does.

As far as I know they took the Ulead product as a NLE and have just progressed with adding features and flexibility to it so it was functionally competitive with comparable Pinnacle, Sony or Cyberlink products. I think they did some cross-over of technolgies they had from their photo and paint products in early evolution of the Ulead product.

[cgbier]

Thanks for the info

[dearcatastrophe]

avid only sold off their consumer product divisions, m-audio and pinnacle.

so they can focus on the professional end of things, with pro tools, MC, and avid branded professional components. the only consumer things i believe they are keeping are now avid branded, like the m-boxes.

in normal avid fashion, they forget the move toward the independent film maker, deciding to cater to the old dinosaurs that pay their support plans and use their programs.
just another poor decision in a long history of poor decisions by avid.

the only avid branded thing sold off was the iPad avid studio. which since it worked with MC, made no sense. but avid isn't known for making sense.

[Krane]

avid only sold off their consumer product divisions, m-audio and pinnacle.

so they can focus on the professional end of things, with pro tools, MC, and avid branded professional components. the only consumer things i believe they are keeping are now avid branded, like the m-boxes.

in normal avid fashion, they forget the move toward the independent film maker, deciding to cater to the old dinosaurs that pay their support plans and use their programs.
just another poor decision in a long history of poor decisions by avid.

the only avid branded thing sold off was the iPad avid studio. which since it worked with MC, made no sense. but avid isn't known for making sense.

In my view Avid made the same mistake GM made with their product redundancy. That why they had to lean out an discontinued similar brands like Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Now that they have, its a leaner, meaner product line that focuses on the core of what the car manufacture has to offer. Avid finally realized that as well.

[cgbier]

I don't think Avid learned anything at all. While you are somewhat right with your GM analogy, the issue is something else: AVID still tries to peddle their products to a rapidly shrinking customer base, that has always been very minute in any way. The upgrade to MC6 was basically a flop. No innovation there, they just managed to come to the same level as the Joneses have been for quite a while. Had they merged MC6 and Symphony and priced it competitively (on the same level as Adobe or Apple) then they might have had a chance.
In the 21st century nobody needs an overpriced Unity/ISIS from the 80's. There are meanwhile better, and cheaper, solutions.

The only thing that holds AVID somewhat afloat is ProTools, but this close to be a be on the endangered species list also. Ardour and Logic, even Sound Forge, have made big inroads.

AVID has been shoveling their own grave for years, due to bad management decisions and the lack of innovation.

[Krane]

Individual favorites and preferences notwithstanding, Avid remains the preeminent editing giant; and the de facto standard for Hollywood. Poor business decisions or not, I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon.

[Rainer]

Individual favorites and preferences notwithstanding, Avid remains the preeminent editing giant; and the de facto standard for Hollywood. Poor business decisions or not, I don't think they're going anywhere anytime soon.

Which is exactly the same logic used by the dinosaurs shortly before they became extinct.

[cgbier]

Krane, even Hollywood is shrinking. AVID gained a few seats from shops jumping the Apple ship, but, in general, their customer base is dwindling.

If you read Walter Biscardi's story about switching from FCS to AVID, only to end up with Adobe, you'll figure that AVID is as far away from a 21st century workflow as the dinosaur mentioned by Rainer.

http://magazine.creativecow.net/arti...e-fcp-switcher

[cgbier]

So what will happen to Avid from now on? We know things are tough financially worldwide, but take a look at the share price which has dropped 60% in the last year. They have also lost a lot cash, a whopping $150 million in 2008, getting better year on year to just over a $20 million loss for the year ending December 31st.

So will Avid go bust? It seems that without their successful ProTools audio software propping them up it might have happened a while ago. Will the Avid product disappear? Of course not, take a look at the re-emerging Lightworks (At one point in time the only competitor to Avid) or the Boris maintained Media 100 as examples of NLE software longevity. That familiar interface will be around for a long time. Who owns it and how much money will be pumped into R&D of the products is a different matter.

Don't get us wrong, we don't want Avid to die, competition is good and this will further push the development of FCPX. We would just be considering a plan B if we ran an Avid post house.la

Taken from http://www.fcp.co/hardware-and-softw...slowly-sinking

[dearcatastrophe]

In my view Avid made the same mistake GM made with their product redundancy. That why they had to lean out an discontinued similar brands like Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Now that they have, its a leaner, meaner product line that focuses on the core of what the car manufacture has to offer. Avid finally realized that as well.

the thing is, avid didn't have an issue with redundancy. avid had a marketable platform for the music industry. the m-audio line offered the standard in monitors with the BX series. the standard in midi controllers in the axiom line, and several interface systems. it won't affect the rebranded m boxes, and the other products that were under digi-design, but it's a big hit to the audio market. especially since they put so much into the venom and it's features.
they copped to their ancient idea that pro tools and MC are there core. at least unity is getting some change with the new isis chassis that is coming out.
they still think the bread and butter is the few studios and musicians that are stuck on their products.

they haven't cared about doing anything groundbreaking with pro tools, they still don't have a solution for bouncing audio faster then real time, and MC's latest update was just more bloat.

they are sinking, and they are sinking fast. they fail to acknowledge or care to realize the future of the industry is independents, and when it comes to audio they fail to realize that musicians aren't stupid.

they may be the standard in hollywood, but it's not because of the product, it's because the studios that use it are stuck on it because no one wants to deal with change.

[dearcatastrophe]

I don't think Avid learned anything at all. While you are somewhat right with your GM analogy, the issue is something else: AVID still tries to peddle their products to a rapidly shrinking customer base, that has always been very minute in any way. The upgrade to MC6 was basically a flop. No innovation there, they just managed to come to the same level as the Joneses have been for quite a while. Had they merged MC6 and Symphony and priced it competitively (on the same level as Adobe or Apple) then they might have had a chance.
In the 21st century nobody needs an overpriced Unity/ISIS from the 80's. There are meanwhile better, and cheaper, solutions.

The only thing that holds AVID somewhat afloat is ProTools, but this close to be a be on the endangered species list also. Ardour and Logic, even Sound Forge, have made big inroads.

AVID has been shoveling their own grave for years, due to bad management decisions and the lack of innovation.

at least they finally offered symphony as a software only package, instead of tying users into overpriced hardware. the price point on both is still horrible.

audio one, logic and other tools offer much more then pro tools, for a lot lower price. feature wise, pro tools hasn't stepped up, either.

[Bob Sanders]

I never really understood why Avid bought Pinnacle in the first place.

Avid is losing BIG TIME on the sale too. They bought Pinnacle for almost 1/2 a billion and have now sold it along with a few other thingy's to Corel for a combined 17 million. That's on the order of a 450 million LOSS.

Can you say..... "Avid's a sinking ship"!?

[cgbier]

Hey Bob,mlong time no read. How ya doing?

[Bob Sanders]

Hey Bob,mlong time no read. How ya doing?

I'm alive.... still paying taxes. Just don't post much anymore (or TRYING not to anyway). Spending way too much time on the computer.

[cgbier]

Yeah, who doesn't?