Indeed!Originally Posted by Rainer
For instance, I thoroughly enjoyed "Maria Full Of Grace", and that employed the shakiness.
I guess the movie was so good, I never "noticed" the shake.
It added, not distracted.
But it's VERY rare!
Indeed!
For instance, I thoroughly enjoyed "Maria Full Of Grace", and that employed the shakiness.
I guess the movie was so good, I never "noticed" the shake.
It added, not distracted.
But it's VERY rare!
Rainer, I think he was spotted by Diogenes, who immediately sold his lamp and adopted the kid. With the money he got for the lamp, he bought a larger barrel.There's an exception to every rule, including this one. But you have to know what the rules are before you can break them. History is uncertain about what happened to the little kid after he pointed out the emperor had no clothes. He was never heard from again.
Exceptions to the rule merely confirm the existence of the rule, not its validity.
But if you're using that adage in its everyday sense, I'd tell you that if something is an exception to a rule, it must be flawed. Otherwise, it is meaningless to call the rule the rule.
Last edited by Jim E; 2012 June 2nd at 23:09.
I am a careful, reader, Vadis. Which is why I noticed this... "Mr. Lipton also has some great things to say about..."
That's fine, as long as you don't lose sight of the fact that the notion of an audience paying money to watch your films is also about the freedom of choice........the notion of an esthetic is not fixed, and that filmmaking, like any other art, is all about the freedom of choice.
Martin (Scorsese), I liked your film, but there was definitely some camera shake in scene 23. It even looked deliberate. Don't you know you mustn't do that? Pablo (Picasso), you idiot. That woman's head is completely out of shape, and it's blue, for God's sake. No, of course I don't want your painting. Krute, I think your point is that sloppy camera movement which detracts from the film, because the CO didn't know how or couldn't be bothered to stabilise the camera is undesirable, and we'd probably agree. But even on this forum there are filmmakers who know the rules and struggle for truth, integrity and artistic expression and who will find times when it's necessary or appropriate to allow or deliberately introduce unsteady camera movement.
Correct, Rainer.
For some reason I'm reminded of an exchange of dialogue from the original "Fame" movie. This guy Martelli, in the music class, is excitedly showing the teacher his synthesiser, and demonstrating how it can reproduce every instrument of the orchestra. He starts to play a piece, hitting buttons and switches in turn, to get each instrument to play its part of the music.But even on this forum there are filmmakers who know the rules and struggle for truth, integrity and artistic expression and who will find times when it's necessary or appropriate to allow or deliberately introduce unsteady camera movement.
The teacher looks at him wryly and says, "That's not music, Martelli... that's masturbation."
Whenever I hear people talking about their struggle for truth, integrity and artistic expression, I can never quite shake off the suspicion that they're just trying to conceal the fact that they don't know what the hell they're doing but they hope nobody notices!
I've always thought that "artists" who vehemently insist on their "right" to please themselves more than their audiences are not really artists - they're just people who want to be called artists.
If you need a clearer example, there are millions of people who want to "be writers", too, but who aren't necessarily people who want to write.
Maybe I'm just too harsh, huh?
A little shake is understandable, people can't hold a camera perfectly still. The problem arises when it has more shake than a stroke victim with parkinsons in a building made of jello during an earthquake.
Bertie, it depends on WHAT you are shooting. In a narrative I hate shaky cams. It reeks of bad planning to me. In documentations there are situation where you have shoot out of the hip. Shaky cam is a necessary evil in these situations.
I'm not an artist, though, I'm a craftsman.
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
Love it or loathe it, Parkinson's cam is indeed used in commercial productions, for better or worse. I just wonder if this provides a 'get out of jail free card' for wannabe filmmakers? Why not? It's the perfect excuse for lack of proper gear/ skills.
"That's the look I was going for."
I just hope that wind rumble and clipping doesn't become fashionable in professional productions.
The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
LOL!
Yep, I reckon that's what it is. Shoot at anything and call what you hit the target...
Reckon it's almost inevitable, Huey.I just hope that wind rumble and clipping doesn't become fashionable in professional productions.
True, CG. With the operative word being "evil". I'm sure competent documentary-makers would do their utmost to eliminate shakey-cam.
From what I have observed of your posts on many topics, you are frequently harsh.
Opinions are good. Strong opinions are also good. Harshness detracts from the audience wanting to listen to any opinion.
Last edited by MrMicah; 2012 June 3rd at 03:16.
You know, it only takes a critic to judge art, but an expert to judge craftsmanship...
PS:
All this talk of shakycam, zoominzoomoutcam, and panbackandforthcam makes me think of my brother-in-law... I once edited about two hours of vacation video, couldn't get more than 15 minutes or so watchable stuff from it.
A very serious discussion with him, pointing out his errors (no, they were not an artistic choice!) made the next vacation film a lot better.
Yes, you're probably right, MrMicah.
Well said, J.
I'm not so sure of my own competence, but in the "Boys' Camp" doc I made, I only had one shaky-cam sequence; the "Beach Olympics" competition... and even that was shot with a collapsed tripod as a "steadier" under the camera...
You can check that sequence here, starting at 06:45 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bmyrt5Qbmg
The reason for "shakycam" was of course to enhance the feeling of speed and competition. It would have been a pretty dull sequence, if shot from further away with the camera on a tripod. There are a lot of such dull sequences in this doc...
Strange, I tend to graviate to really bad movie reviews, the harsher the better. If I see a one out of five star rating, I'll want to read it, especially if Bay or Cameron are getting panned. Is it just my bloodthirsty nature or merely human to enjoy a good hoisting? The Colosseum was always packed, right?
Last edited by HueyNRolf; 2012 June 3rd at 03:39.
The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
I didn't think this was the bloodsport thread Huey.
Everything has its place. While the Coliseum was probably packed, you could still get arrested (I believe) for hacking someone to death outside of it.
Well of course, I don't think you'll see Krute walking around Perth gladiatored up, but within the walls of this forum. . . WATCH OUT!
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The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.
The movie Cloverfield ADDED shakeycam, and as a result, looks like it was filmed by someone constantly waving their arm around. Documentary filmmakers do get a bit of a pass, but even if they are shooting from the hip, they at least try and stabilize the camera, because the ridiculous Cloverfield shakeycam is pretty useless in documenting something.
Yep, I've watched and enjoyed that doco before, Mister J. Don't seem to recall any "dull bits" in it...I'm not so sure of my own competence, but in the "Boys' Camp" doc I made, I only had one shaky-cam sequence; the "Beach Olympics" competition... and even that was shot with a collapsed tripod as a "steadier" under the camera...
You can check that sequence here, starting at 06:45 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bmyrt5Qbmg
The reason for "shakycam" was of course to enhance the feeling of speed and competition. It would have been a pretty dull sequence, if shot from further away with the camera on a tripod. There are a lot of such dull sequences in this doc...
What you call your shaky-cam sequence was more like simply an active camera skillfully following the action, to me. Necessary and effective for the sequence. And yes, it does enhance the feel of the scene. Because the audience can still see what's happening!
It's a pity that some would-be film-makers don't understand that.
LOL!!! Yeah, I sometimes display an anger-management problem, eh, Huey!Well of course, I don't think you'll see Krute walking around Perth gladiatored up, but within the walls of this forum. . . WATCH OUT!
Gladiator_Adult_Costume.png
But I'm working on it.
Krute, didn't you call Henry Miller "an undisciplined, messy writer with a dirty mouth", and say that Chuck Palahniuk aquired "some form of status" because his "background is bizzare enough" (although you base your analysis of Palahniuk not having read a word of his).
I'm grateful that Miller and Palahniuk (and Hemingway, Picasso, Brecht, Dali, Paradzanov, Brautigan.... etc. etc.) concentrated on their own visions, and not the needs of some imagined "audience".
But I guess we have different tastes in the arts (although I have acquired the habit of reading authors that I comment on)
Yeah, sounds like something I'd say, vadis...
(Are you saving all my comments, vadis?!!!)
Oh, dammit! You blew it, Vadis! I was almost beginning to think that you had a few clues. But that comment is just plain silly!I'm grateful that Miller and Palahniuk (and Hemingway, Picasso, Brecht, Dali, Paradzanov, Brautigan.... etc. etc.) concentrated on their own visions, and not the needs of some imagined "audience".
When you've read all of those author's works, might be a good idea if you read all the books about those authors.
Hemingway wasn't conscious of his audience???!! Oh dear....
Last edited by Jim E; 2012 June 3rd at 04:29.
I don't know that Cloverfield, but I my utmost best to prevent a shaky cam whenever possible. However, this cannot always be the case, trying to catch insects while they do their thing for example (I liked my Sony A1's telemacro for that). Taking several shots, and keep the best, is the only way sometimes.
"It is dark the other side. Very dark!" - "Oh, shut up and eat your toast!"
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