Cable mounted preamplifier?

[KingDucky]

I wanted to buy something like this, but it's discontinued everywhere I look. I wanted to use it to boost sound levels while using my Ntg-2 with my H4n. I want to stay light and not lug around a bigger preamplifier, and this had good reviews for such a small, portable thing. I've been searching B&H, etc for something similar, but with my limited audio knowledge and not really knowing exactly what to look for, I haven't been to successful. Can anyone help me out, maybe have secret knowledge of something similar? Or maybe some insight if something like this is very useful at all?

Thank you, hope everyone is doing well.

**Or would it be worth it to get a small to medium sized preamp like this or this and lug it around, but have more versatility over sound recording + boosted sound levels?

[KingDucky]

Actually, I'm just going to get an ART Tube preamp. Reading reviews for the past hour and for the price it seems to be what I'm looking for, plus it'll most likely improve my sound a lot more than a little cable preamp. Sorry for the wasted thread Mal!, you can delete/close it. Sorrry.

[1]

Sorry for the wasted thread Mal!

No worries. Let us know how the preAmp works for you.

[Janke]

Well, that discontinued "cable amp" only needs a whiff of phantom power, while the ART will need a lot more - a tube draws a lot of current just for keeping the cathode hot.

Saw nothing about power in the specs...

[KingDucky]

No worries. Let us know how the preAmp works for you.

I shall indeed!

Saw nothing about power in the specs...

Neither did I, but reading reviews many people are praising it's portability, so I'm assuming it uses some form of batteries, or is possibly rechargeable. But, do you know of any other small-ish portable preamps that about match the functions of this one, all wise Janke? Cause I couldn't really find any others on this level, for the price.

Edit: Ah blast the power supply is Ac, the only power coming from the preamp itself is for phantom power. Back to square one. Maybe this. < Nevermind, No XLR output.

[Janke]

do you know of any other ... all wise Janke?

No ... and no! - I'm not a wise man - I'm a wise guy!

No XLR output.

Well, it has a balanced 1/4" TSR output, a simple adapter will convert that to XLR.

[Steve_Karl]

I hate to say it but tubes in preamps are like using colored sunglasses on the front of your camera lens.
You can better correct (or warm or add distortion) in post in both instances.

[MrMicah]

I hate to say it but tubes in preamps are like using colored sunglasses on the front of your camera lens.
You can better correct (or warm or add distortion) in post in both instances.

Oh. I thought that a (non-noisy) pre-amp would improve the signal to noise content that was recorded, and would therfore give you more options in post.

If your mic etc is having trouble getting good sound, so it has a relatively high noise content, even noise reduction in post (and boosting the desired content) is going to create more distortion than a better recorded original signal?

(Assuming everything is equal under both instances at the time of recording)

[KingDucky]

Well, it has a balanced 1/4" TSR output, a simple adapter will convert that to XLR.

Yeah, that's what I finally decided on if I get one. It looked like either that or the Sound Devices MMI which is waaay too expensive fer me.

If your mic etc is having trouble getting good sound, so it has a relatively high noise content, even noise reduction in post (and boosting the desired content) is going to create more distortion than a better recorded original signal?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I think I'm going to buy the one with the Tsr output and see how it goes. Thanks for all the help guys!

[Steve_Karl]

Oh. I thought that a (non-noisy) pre-amp would improve the signal to noise content that was recorded, and would therfore give you more options in post.

Yes. A cleaner preamp ( non-noisy) is a good thing. The cleaner the better. I was just ragging on the tube part of it, which hopefully can be ignored and not used, ( many are able to do that ) because the tube part is, in my anal opinion, an add on to appease the "analog is so rad, man..." ** mind set.
All the tube will do is detract from the clear digital signal and ad dirt. Not necessarily add to the noise floor, but
in most cased the tubes, in these types of preamps, adds subtle grunge to the signal so it sounds like an old piece of analog gear.**

Oh.
If your mic etc is having trouble getting good sound, so it has a relatively high noise content, even noise reduction in post (and boosting the desired content) is going to create more distortion than a better recorded original signal?

Well, maybe maybe not.
Worst case, it's possible that your mic is just noisy and the best preamp on the planet will just amplify that noise.(^)
Of course a "better recorded" meaning better signal to noise ratio, (assuming accurate/equal frequency response) is always best.

It's possible the pre in the cam is just a bit dirty and a good clean preamp in front of it will allow you to turn the cam pre down a bit
and get above some of the noise.

Some noise reduction plugins are pretty slick,
but even the best of them seem to want minimal reduction per pass and multiple passes rather than trying to get it all in one pass.

What I would look for buying a preamp would be the one with the most head room before the noise floor and as flat a response as possible.
Many don't post those specs. And I don't care about tubes. I can dirty it up in post any time.
I just want clean and flat. I think it's always best to capture the purest signal possible.

aside: (^)
I bought an Audio Technika ATR3350 a while back and just got around to testing it with my Zoom H2.
I like the tone but there was some (not a lot ... but enough to make me want to noise reduce it) noise there that I don't think belongs to the H2.
I have to test again with just the Zoom mics and compare.

[cgbier]

Stupid question: What for?

Disregarding Steve's excellent advice now, but I think the Zooms have terrific pre-amps. Not for audiophiles, maybe, but good enough for video applications.

What for? Where do you want to distribute your project? Who is your audience? Will the standard, run off the mill, NTG-2/H4 setup not be sufficient? Stooping down to you audience who might not even recognize clean sound when it hits them over the head, will save you a lot of money.

advocatus diaboli here...

[KingDucky]

I was thinking Universal Pictures Cg

But maybe you're right. It's just with the input boosted to 100, the sound is still so quiet, especially for shots where I can only get the boom so close. so when I boost it in post, I'm also boosting any hissing, etc. But, alas, maybe I'll spend my money on other things, or get a cheaper preamp.

This thread still turned out to be full of useful information though!

[cgbier]

Are you sure you have a battery in your mic or turn on phantom power on the H4? I get -12dB at about 65-75% with the NTG-2 plugged into the H1.

[Steve_Karl]

but I think the Zooms have terrific pre-amps.

That was my initial impression also, and why I mentioned the possibility of a noisy mic, and that I needed to
re test with just the zoom mic.

When I set up the ATR3350 to test with the H2 I had to crank the record volume up to the max (127)
to get a decent level on my voice using the ATR3350 clipped to my t shirt collar.
Talking in a normal conversational voice I was well below clipping although I could drive it up to 0dB with minimal effort
when I tried.

An other nice thing about the H2 is that I couldn't hear any clipping with it hit 0dB, but I could see
the truncated tops of those areas in Sound Forge. Nice of Zoom to figure out how to do that!

I'm not really complaining about the ATR3350. For the price I think it's amazing.

[cgbier]

That is weird, Steve. The H1 doesn't need that much gain with neither the NTG-2, nor the ATR3350.
I wasn't too impressed with the (original) H2's amps. The H1 and 4n seem to be better.

[Steve_Karl]

It could possibly be a weak battery in the ATR3350.
I need to get a few as spares and also check the voltage with a multi meter.

[Janke]

Weak battery, OR it's inserted the wrong way around!

The marking is a bit ambiguous, it shows the direction of the battery, not which pole goes toward the icon... + goes toward the spring, but the icon has the minus mark there...

[cgbier]

It could possibly be a weak battery in the ATR3350.
I need to get a few as spares and also check the voltage with a multi meter.

You need a lot of spares if you use it regularly (and forget to turn it off afterwards).

[Steve_Karl]

Thanks Janke.
I just checked and mine is in correctly. It has a + and a picture of the battery shape on the case.

cjbier > Yes!
You made me remember that I already bought a 10 pack of these. I just have to find them now!
Found 'em!