Switching back to camcorder for weddings rather than DSLR

[liverpool 1]

Well here i go unless someone can link me to a top camcorder under £3000 that will give me the same depth of field as a dslr will.
I have now completed 7 weddings this year with two 60ds and two hv40s.
My thoughts, the dslr no doubt has the greater footage but for running and gunning at a wedding it is impossible to capture the best moments under pressure. I have missed so much but yet have captured some great stuff, the bad stuff is outwaying the good stuff. Dont get me wrong when there is time the dslr is brilliant but for the money i charge in a rough english area where comments have already been made there is blur in the DVD whats happened???? I have not the time to keep colour grading to match cameras especially for the price i charge. It is now annoying me not many english folks understand my creativity, so what do i do? save my 60ds for photos and get a camcorder that will give me the same look?? any one advise me?

[Almohada]

Smart folks. Just goes to show how the technology is ridden here.

There are many cameras out there today that record to cards (AVCHD of course) and some even have inter changable lenses. I think one of em is called something like XA10 by Canon.

[Erik Bien]

Not sure that I understand what you're after: something with insanely-shallow depth of field that can also keep the important stuff in focus while running and gunning in dim light, with no rehearsals and no re-takes? The closest to that ideal I can think of at present would probably be RED's Scarlet fitted with their autofocus-capable Canon mount and Canon lenses.

But wait: it also has to be cheap enough to buy and post-produce while keeping your pricing competitive with guys shooting on camcorders and burning SD-DVDs with iMovie? Sure you wouldn't rather have a unicorn instead?

[cgbier]

Wedding cam for under 3k? Canon XF100. You just have to go in a bit closer for shallow DOF.

Shoots MPEG2 in 4:2:2 50mbps onto CF cards. Plenty of custom pictures profiles to play with. I get beautiful imagery out of mine.

[Almohada]

Or wait for that new Blackmagic 2.5K camera for $3k...

[liverpool 1]

For sure Erik thats what i would like.. i love the shallow depth of field but getting that is so hard running and gunning so yes quite correct on your analysis...and probably yes something i want but is not out there, ha well i can dream.
Mmm thanks CG, will look into that one xf100 got decent reviews..
cheers Almo, i have the hfg10 also the baby brother to the xa10 b ut cannot get the look, yes i can zoom far away and imitate a slight shallow depthe of field but does not look right... steve

[Almohada]

Well, someone has to say it at some point: DOF adapter

[cgbier]

Almo, Steve is talking about weddings here - fast paced action. DOF adaptors or cinematic cams are the worst things you can imagine for that job.

[cgbier]

Oh, did I mention that the XF seems to be immune against rolling shutter?

[liverpool 1]

Spot on CG, i aint messing around with an adapter like that and flipping in post, Almo thanks but hey 7 weddings this year pweeeew its hard mate no time, people moving, people in the way, vicar says dont go there, come here, toastmaster has different agenda at the last minute, venue organiser rushing the bride and groom to sit down for a meal well before the time you have with them, the car people dropping the bride and groom off well before the door at church and venues, photgraphers getting in the way, kids knocking your tripod and pulling your camera over, dark venue trying to swiitch lens for lower light, the vicar priest in the way and a full back shot, coming down the isle the best man in the way, vows the best man in the way, signing the register and the vicar changes her his mind with another agenda differnet from the exit isle shot, run get there focus check iso, check apeteure woooooh to dark cant switch lens here...woooops its starting raining quick get the brolly hold it above me, wait im trying to sort the iso and apeture, wooooh the sun has gone in woooooh its dark and rainy now, wooooh the clouds have gone in check apeture quick, iso baCK TO 100, lalalala iso now 320, lalalala the bride and groom have moved...... need i go on...

[Bertzie]

Quit worrying about depth of field. People care less about how artsy something is if you're missing important stuff.

[liverpool 1]

oh and did i mention sorting with the dj and venue the lighting for the dance, changing lens for that shoot, camera ready b+g coming onto the dance floor. wooooh where has the lights gone, lalalala the dj has turned the lights offfffffff. lalalala iso now 6400 to grainy, other 60d run around sort that at 6400 to grainy,,,, hv40 cinemode life saverrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[liverpool 1]

thanks Bertzie... that is now my motto

[HD-tography]

Spot on CG, i aint messing around with an adapter like that and flipping in post, Almo thanks but hey 7 weddings this year pweeeew its hard mate no time, people moving, people in the way, vicar says dont go there, come here, toastmaster has different agenda at the last minute, venue organiser rushing the bride and groom to sit down for a meal well before the time you have with them, the car people dropping the bride and groom off well before the door at church and venues, photgraphers getting in the way, kids knocking your tripod and pulling your camera over, dark venue trying to swiitch lens for lower light, the vicar priest in the way and a full back shot, coming down the isle the best man in the way, vows the best man in the way, signing the register and the vicar changes her his mind with another agenda differnet from the exit isle shot, run get there focus check iso, check apeteure woooooh to dark cant switch lens here...woooops its starting raining quick get the brolly hold it above me, wait im trying to sort the iso and apeture, wooooh the sun has gone in woooooh its dark and rainy now, wooooh the clouds have gone in check apeture quick, iso baCK TO 100, lalalala iso now 320, lalalala the bride and groom have moved...... need i go on...

oh and did i mention sorting with the dj and venue the lighting for the dance, changing lens for that shoot, camera ready b+g coming onto the dance floor. wooooh where has the lights gone, lalalala the dj has turned the lights offfffffff. lalalala iso now 6400 to grainy, other 60d run around sort that at 6400 to grainy,,,, hv40 cinemode life saverrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Ahh Yes! I LOVE Weddings! (Just Not As The Cinematographer!)

Anyway, If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't go with anything less than the aforementioned Canon XF100... you won't be sorry. That camera is a dream come true! Hire a film school assistant to shoot shallow dof b-roll with one of your 60D's and take the minimal time to color correct, you'll get the best of both worlds, you're right in the statement creativity means $#!% to the client when you're missing gaps in their big day and important shots are out of focus.

Just my 2 cents...

[liverpool 1]

Hd your 2cents taken sir...

[simulacro]

i would still use the dslr and shoot the important stuff in wide angle; when you have time for more creative shots, zoom in and then you have the DOF

[Bif]

Steve,

I second the XF100 suggestion. You have to be able to "roll" with the event with minimal "fiddling". I remember weddings being "wild" enough trying to keep up doing still images.

You could keep one 60D handy for those special scenes you can work in.

Bruce Foreman

[liverpool 1]

As per usual all great points guys, thanks everyone, it does seem a pity to learn well with the dslr to just completely disregard them. The only time that is slightly relaxed is the mingling after the speeches and morning prep. So maybe it's then I can be more creative, the xf100 seems the one to get by all accounts so we will see thanks.

[Janke]

Being "creative" when shooting a wedding video is pretty hard, unless you have a group of several camerapersons...

Alone, you cannot do more than "document" the proceedings... since they are, in essence, not predictable, despite all the planning !

No retakes are possible - or have you ever asked: "Could you please put on the ring once more, the Best Man was in the way..."

[Daniel Rutter]

I found with the wedding I did that I only really got to be "artsy" when they were at the reception.

Having a second person to do the morbid "boring" shots (those that make the families watching go "oohh look, its meeeeeeee") while you run off and get nice shallow DOF shots of shoes, wine glasses, rings or whatever will help you.

[liverpool 1]

Nice one Daniel...

[Daniel Rutter]

I'd say, find a kid who's happy to work for you for 10 pound an hour (or whatever is reasonable for you to pay) just to man a camera. Teach him how to use it, what to do and what not to do. It'd probably help if he had interest as well.

Get him to do your "boring" stuff, while you get artsy fartsy

[Lou van Wijhe]

Get him to do your "boring" stuff, while you get artsy fartsy

Or better still, stay on the safe side and do it the other way around.

Lou

[cgbier]

I'd say, find a kid who's happy to work for you for 10 pound an hour (or whatever is reasonable for you to pay) just to man a camera. Teach him how to use it, what to do and what not to do. It'd probably help if he had interest as well.

Get him to do your "boring" stuff, while you get artsy fartsy

Exactly that is what can be a catastrophe. You don't want to have someone with just a crash course in holding a camera correctly.

[simulacro]

10 pound an hour

...only ten pounds an hour????? don't call me