New Blackmagic 2.5K RAW Cinema Camera - Under $3,000 - WOW!!!!

[Erik Bien]

... but the Penelope has been "coming soon" even longer than the Scarlet!

BTW, the reaction to the BlackMagic cam at REDuser would be comical if it weren't so pathetic: at least a half-dozen threads about it have been opened only to be hastily 'disappeared' by the moderating staff. The only one that's been allowed to stand (so far) briefly mentions BlackMagic's new camera, declaring it "a toy" that "the ipad brigade will love." Especially ironic since BM's improvements to DaVinci Resolve version 9 are big news for many RED shooters, the only threads about it that haven't been pulled are careful to avoid any mention of BlackMagic's "other new product."

In this internet age, I rather question the effectiveness of jamming one's fingers in one's ears and yelling "Nya nya nya, can't hear you!"

[Ian-T]

LOL...I know. Closing of threads. Calling it a toy. What's up with that? It's a shame. This camera (aside from no 120 fps) is turning out to be everything the original Scarlet was supposed to be and more (including price).

[argonaut]

Not sure if you guys have seen John Brawley's blog with BMC info http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/201...-from-the-top/

[refocusedmedia]

New interview with John Brawley

Some informative videos:
http://vimeo.com/40477529
http://vimeo.com/40479724
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECvqjH9LYWY
http://vimeo.com/40491503
http://vimeo.com/40489030
http://vimeo.com/40513740
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG4u3Nx9u7s
http://vimeo.com/40504157

[dop16mm]

This topic is nearly 80 pages long over on DVXUser, not plugging, just a lot of us are members there too. As for sensor res, it is supposedly nearly perfect for bayer production of true 2k and 1080p. Very similar to the Arri Alexa, which is the most sought after and filmic camera going now. No need for 4k. I don't know about you guys, but I can't see any need for 4k any time in the forseeable future, especially at the budget points we'll be working with. Less than 10% of the channels on my TV system are HD, most of the Flat screens sold are 32" 720p sets for $299. That is the market. Yes computer screens will get sharper, and maybe big tv's will too, but it won't be for full screen full res content, it will likely multi-windowed, and hopefully decent scalers when going full screen. Unless bandwidth is super cheap where you are I can't imagine 4k taking off online any time soon either. Who's going to pay for it?

Even at the theatre 2k projection is already sharper than a typical release print.

I've stuck with my HV20's, and not jumped into the DSLR craze, knowing that eventually a camera will arrive that will do what I need at a price I can sort of afford. I balked at the first generation avchd camcorders because if I'm laying out that much cash I don't want to be limited by a codec that isn't accepted for broadcast. This thing is like the cost of the recorders that people are strapping onto their cameras to make them work. Not that anything I made would end up on tv, but why be limited?

My working style for low budget drama is based around 2 cameras. Amateur actors aren't good for many takes, and we try to wrap in about three hours, so we need to work fast. With this, if I get my budgets in place might actually be possible. 2 Red's, not in my lifetime. 2 Blacks, just maybe.

[refocusedmedia]

2 Red's, not in my lifetime. 2 Blacks, just maybe.

Black is the new red.

[1]

Hahaha!

[Erik Bien]

I've stuck with my HV20's, and not jumped into the DSLR craze, knowing that eventually a camera will arrive that will do what I need at a price I can sort of afford. I balked at the first generation avchd camcorders because if I'm laying out that much cash I don't want to be limited by a codec that isn't accepted for broadcast. This thing is like the cost of the recorders that people are strapping onto their cameras to make them work.

QFT.

Even though the ergonomics of this thing look even worse than a DSLR for motion shooting (something I'd almost not have believed possible), at least it seems to get most of the big things right. I'll be more than happy to fight with a touch screen on a nose-heavy brick if the reward is footage free of aliasing, moiré, sharpening and compression recorded to commodity-priced media. But, since the lens mounts aren't interchangeable, I might just wait for the M43 version ...

[cgbier]

I have a 2400 dollar touchscreen paperweight on my desk.... thank you, touch screen!

Yeah, that's a weird thing: With that sensor size, why didn't they go micro 4:3?

[Gillvane]

Of course I am being the 'devil's advocate' and sure I appreciate the ROI factors. The troubling thing about this point and shoot 2.5K is that it has raised all eyebrows but not made itself open to upgrades down the road. Where will owners of this camera be in 12 months? Another $3K camera upgrade? That's insane. The FS700 is configured with the 'promise' of 4K out the door (albeit with a recorder) But hey, Hasn't Black Magic just lowered the expectations for the prices of external recorders with this new paradigm> You bet they have! Externals should be about 1/2 price or less in 12 months
I can earn the cost of a base FS700 shooting 250fps in a food commercial TVC in one day. Since the BlackMagic 2.5K tops out at 30p, We're stuck in normal motion land with this camera. I wonder if AT LEAST, there's a still image capture mode? That would be helpful to the DSLR fence sitters.

I don't work professionally in the film or TV industry. This is strictly a hobby for me. I like to shoot video that looks nice, and I can afford to do that at this price point.

A Scarlet or FS700 would be silly to purchase for a hobby, unless of course money isn't an object.

But $3,000? That's not much more than a 5d Mark II (which some people buy just to take photos of the kids), and a lot less than people spend on something like a Jet Ski.

So sure, if you're a industry pro and figuring out ROI, this might not be the camera for you. But for the hobbyist and indie film maker producing low/no budget films this camera is awesome!

[dop16mm]

even though I don't have a cent invested in either canon or mft lenses, I'm hoping for a mft mount soon as well, so much more appropriate for the chip size and easier to adapt the lenses I do have. Also those manual lenses are quite sweet. I can understand going with the canon mount for this first release, as it was the 5dII craze that started this whole thing and a lot of people are invested in those lenses that will only work on a proper electronic mount. Also with Red and the high End canons, EF will be the go to second tier lens, after PL on pro shoots.

I too am a hobbyist, striving for the best image I can get within a budget. Sadly no free cash just now, house payments, kids and not nearly enough work. Sigh. If only I could have back all the camera money I've spent over the years... To be a kid with no responsibilities again, now is the time.

[Gillvane]

even though I don't have a cent invested in either canon or mft lenses, I'm hoping for a mft mount soon as well, so much more appropriate for the chip size and easier to adapt the lenses I do have. Also those manual lenses are quite sweet. I can understand going with the canon mount for this first release, as it was the 5dII craze that started this whole thing and a lot of people are invested in those lenses that will only work on a proper electronic mount. Also with Red and the high End canons, EF will be the go to second tier lens, after PL on pro shoots.

I too am a hobbyist, striving for the best image I can get within a budget. Sadly no free cash just now, house payments, kids and not nearly enough work. Sigh. If only I could have back all the camera money I've spent over the years... To be a kid with no responsibilities again, now is the time.

Canon REALLY likes to make lenses. You need a wide fast lense for this camera. If the camera becomes popular, Canon might make one.

It might not be cheap, but Canon can make a lens if there's a market for it.

[argonaut]

Yeah, that's a weird thing: With that sensor size, why didn't they go micro 4:3?

Apparently It was due to budget constraints. The same reason why there's no interchangeable battery. They had a price in mind while building the camera and they used their i/o expertise to achieve latitude and raw (IMHO that was the target from the get-go) More camera models should be announced in the near future.

[refocusedmedia]

Great post from StephenM over at dvxuser:

"I spent some time with the camera at NAB today and here are some impressions, and answers received from the staff. Any opinions are mine, coming from an indie filmmaker point of view, and as such may not be relevant for run-n-gun or event shooters.

Mount: The camera is an EF mount only. They are now correctly saying ZE in the booth rather than ZF. So, no direct F mount support in this version. They mount itself looked quite robust, lots of steel and torx screws.

Sensor: It is not a 4/3 sensor as has been discussed fully here. IMHO, the error may have come from the talking points the staff were given. One of the fellows said that it was a 4:3 sensor using less than the full sensor, and thought that some of his associates may simply misinterpreted 4:3 as 4/3. Anyway, just an opinion. They also confirmed that it scales the full image when shooting in 1080, it does not crop the sensor. They also confirmed that it is a CMOS sensor, and I did observe some rolling shutter artifacts during whip pans, as would be expected.

Anamorphic: I mentioned that I would be interested in seeing anamorphic support and they wrote it down, like they were counting how many people asked. They definitely thought it might be technically possible but didn't think we'd see it in the first camera.

TimeCode: There is not timecode currently. They did say that discussions were on-going about using the audio input in some way to jam sync, but again no promises. For my part this is the one thing that I really wish they had added.

Battery: The battery is internal, just like the Hyperdeck. It takes an external source of 12-30v (yes 30) for charging the battery. IMO, this is just fine as it allows for changing of the external battery without stopping the camera. I can't count how many times over the years a brick has run out on me in the middle of a take. With this internal battery, it will act like a UPS on a computer. Again, I shoot narrative, so having a larger rig with bricks is not an issue for me. Your mileage may vary.

Frame Rate: 30 fps is the maximum. They stated that the reason is processing power and the speed of the SSD's. IMO, I don't think we should expect it to increase in the first version. I asked them about faster rates for ProRes given the smaller data output size, but the answer given was that camera does all it's processing at 2.5 raw before sending it to the scaler/compressor and is such still subject to the raw performance implications.

Freebies: The inclusion of DaVinci and Ultrascope is terrific. This is a raw camera so post processing is part of the workflow. Including arguably one of the finest CC tools for free is terrific. BTW, I spent a long time with the new DaVinci 9. The new interface changes are (mostly) great and should make it a lot easier for new DaVinci users to get started without losing any of its power. Ultrascope is very nice as well, particularly if you already have a thunderbolt laptop.

Overall, it looks like a terrific camera, especially given the price. I'm going to pick one up."

[refocusedmedia]

[zephyrnoid]

Darn! You posted the Hilter spoof ahead of me! Good find !

[Gillvane]

I don't need to shoot everything with a 50mm at f1.2 like all those faggots on vimeo!

Hilarious.

[zephyrnoid]

IIs your evil twin going to pony up the extra $6000+ for the FS700 just so it can do 60+ fps?

Of course! Compared to a Phantom the FS700 is cheap. I have food TVC's lined up in the fall that will more than pay for the FS700 plus a few lenses and no I don't need a 4K fed out to an external for this gig. Once I have the camera, I will market it's 60-240 FPS capability ALL OVER the place. Industrial applications (SloMo to go with your TimeLapse anyone?) , fashion, cars. shoot. I can even shoot some amazing wedding stuff and pay it off in two gigs!

Now. Go ahead and tell me where else you can BUY (not rent) a fast shutter 1080P camera for that price? OH and BTW, with the money I'll make in 6Months from Fall 2012- NAB 2013, I'll pick up two of whatever BlackMagic or a competitor can dish out in that form factor ... and use my FS700 lenses on everything. Goodbye DSLR!

[zephyrnoid]

I don't need to shoot everything with a 50mm at f1.2 like all those faggots on vimeo!

Hilarious.

Killed me to!!!

[refocusedmedia]

New clip: http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/201...ackmagic-clip/

[refocusedmedia]

More new videos (too many to embed):

http://vimeo.com/40554633
http://vimeo.com/40561964
http://vimeo.com/40559110
http://vimeo.com/40563316
http://vimeo.com/40578436
http://vimeo.com/40596780
http://vimeo.com/40606822
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMxWnxCYjD8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_mux8o5adU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MKVsdiWFjQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_-4za9D1lw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Rx-Zl2JOg

[refocusedmedia]

Zacuto shows off the BMCC attached to their rig: http://www.facebook.com/ZacutoUSA/po...50760553227402

[Gillvane]

No cameras in this price range are perfect.

The Black camera has a small sensor plus EF mount, so it's hard if not impossible to find fast wide lenses.

I think it's worth working around, which means fewer tight spots to shoot in and more light.

Just have to break out the lights, and plan around that scene in the bathroom. Instead of that medium head and shoulders shot of the guy shaving his face, it's just gonna be a close up of the razor.

[refocusedmedia]

Frame grabs for the latest clip: http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/201...rabs-for-leah/

[1]

Nice grabs, thanks for the link.



"...is there a blotch/band or similar, on the right (from our POV) part of the neck ?I see some color artifacts..or maybe red channel clipping?"

In years to come, this statement will be looked at as the pivotal beginning of humanity's demise.
I mean really? A blotch? An artifact? How pedantic are we getting here? If this is an issue, we really are doomed as a species...

!!!