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Thread: Is there away that an electric condensing microphone can be rigged up to an HV40?

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    Default Is there away that an electric condensing microphone can be rigged up to an HV40?

    Hi there,

    I'm trying a bunch of different types of microphones to go with my HV40. I haven't used it much but a new job has prompted me to start using it. I'm shooting "talking head" styled interviews and while the image quality is sweet, I need a mic thats going to record perfect sound, will be unobtrusive to the interviewee and work with my HV40. I have one off those old Sony HD cameras that have a "shoe" port that enables the use of a blue tooth mic but when you clip that of to someone who moves around a fair bit it will pick up all the scratches from it rubbing up against their shirt or what ever. And the mic is not very discrete. So I'm keen to set up a Boom mic and possible a more discrete wireless mic to use with my HV40.

    So, do external mics get on all that well with the HV40? Can anyone point me in the right direction as far as boom or wireless lapel mics that are compatible with the HV40? I have a Sony ECM672 electric condensing mic that works well but it has one of those large 3 pin connections - are there any adaptors or anything that will allow me to connect it to the HV40? or is a better option to purchase a new one and go with that?

    Any, advice or help would be really appreciated!

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    Tropical Legend cgbier's Avatar
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    If the ECM had a battery, you could use a simple 20 dollar transformer. However, it needs phantom power, so you'll have to check for Juiced Link or Beachtek boxes, or a simple field mixer.

    But then, as the Sony mic is not really something to write home about, you can also look into a better microphone, like the Røde NTG 2 or an Azden 2x with that 20 dollar transformer.
    If you want to shoot a lot indoors, I'd suggest the Azden. You have two mics in one. A shotgun doesn't cut it indoors.

    Cloth rustle from lavaliere is a question of placing the microphone correctly. It needs some practice, but is doable.
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    FilmMaker Extraordinaire Daniel Rutter's Avatar
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    A Beachtek adapter such as the DXA-2S will serve you properly. I've run two AKG condensors through it into my Zoom H1 (and it will work on a HV30) just fine. AKG are expensive though, mind you... and I borrowed mine from the local Radio station (I work there).

    That beachtek is useful for things like Rode NTG2, or any mic with XLR connectors. I've even used my Shure SM58 with it and had no issues whatsoever.

    If you search this forum for audio advice, you'll see the lines "a good lav is handy to have", and I agree. Lav and Lapel mics are (I believe, and feel free to prove me wrong) roughly the same thing, a lot of people recommend the Audio Technica lavs... I don't own one, but it's on my list of things to eventually get.

    Ideally, you can pick up a Zoom H4 or a Zoom H2 for around the same price as a Beachtek nowadays... and they work in pretty much the same way. Your only issue then would be syncing audio in post.

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    Tropical Legend cgbier's Avatar
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    The H2 doesn't have XLR input...
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    Cheers Guys! I had a look at the Azden 2x and it looks like the one to go for with a battery power source plus the 2 in one action. I know this is a studied question but is it able to be mounted on the HV40 without having to purchase and extra brackets? Thanks for the advice!

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    Tropical Legend cgbier's Avatar
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    There's a (very basic) shock mount in the box that fits the HV's hotshoe.
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    FilmMaker Extraordinaire Daniel Rutter's Avatar
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    Correct, I was under the impression that the H2 had XLR inputs... not sure where I got that from.

    Anyway, moving on

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    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Rutter View Post
    That beachtek is useful for things like Rode NTG2, or any mic with XLR connectors. I've even used my Shure SM58 with it and had no issues whatsoever. [..] a lot of people recommend the Audio Technica lavs... I don't own one, but it's on my list of things to eventually get. [..] Your only issue then would be syncing audio in post.
    1) The Beachtek is simply an XLR to 3.5mm with a volume knob. For around the same price, I'd go with a JuicedLink, which comes with a decent preamp, which can come handy if you plug it straight to your HV40 (which has a noisy preamp). So by doing such, you can lower the input of the HV40 by using the JuicedLink preamp, and record decent sound straight into the HV40. Now, quality would be the only issue: Mp2 audio @ 384kbps vs Wav audio @ 1536kbps. If you don't mind (depending on the production, you probably won't notice it) it will avoid you to sync the audio in post.
    2) I have the NTG-2 and as a former Azden SGM-1x owner, I'd recommend you to move to RØDE. the difference between both (in terms of audio quality) is simply not comparable. The NTG-2 is way better.
    3) Talking about Lavs, I'd recommend you the Azden EX-503, which don't need batteries to run and picks up less ambient sound/noise. Check in my signature for my vimeo profile and check the video I've done demonstrating it.
    4) As I said, sync in post wouldn't be an issue if recording directly via the HV40 with the Mic > JuicedLink > HV40. Otherwise, a simple clapboard could suffice to sync with the audio peak at the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by cgbier View Post
    The H2 doesn't have XLR input...
    It doesn't, but using the adapter you've linked it would work like a charm.
    Quote Originally Posted by cgbier View Post
    There's a (very basic) shock mount in the box that fits the HV's hotshoe.
    The one that came with the SGM-1x served me pretty well the time I had the mic. Actually, I kind of miss it. It may be simple and basic, but it was doing a good job. At least, compared to RØDE, they offered some kind of shockmount, not a single mic holder to put on a stand.
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

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    If I was to go for either the Rode NTG-2 or the Azden x2 - how long is the cord? I ask because my second question is - what would you all suggest the best kind of stand, for an interview situation be? I've been looking at floor stands that would bring the mic up a wee bit above knee height for the interviewee which is nice and out of the shot. What do you guys suggest? any suggestions on what type, brand, easily transported things like that??
    and would it pay to purchase a longer cord from the camera to the mic?

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    Tropical Legend cgbier's Avatar
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    The cable is as long as the one you buy. There's no XLR cable in the box when you buy either the X2 or NTG-2.
    Are your victims standing, or are those sit-down interviews? Is it one interviewee or more? I'd get mic stands with a boom. Makes it easier to keep them @#$& mic out of the frame. Don't forget to mic each interviewee separately (you'll need as many mics as you have folks in the shot for best quality). ...oh, and the standard mic clips that are shipped with stands don't fit shotguns. The Røde comes with a clip, for the Azden you'd need to buy one separately.
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    I'm in a wheelchair so my "victims" will be sitting also. Because I cant really move that much and I only have one "crew member" who will be focusing on operating the camera, I will need a stand that takes care of the mic so he can listen through headphones to make sure the sound is all good and take care of the HV40. Now I'm pretty clueless when it comes to sound so could you please tell me what XLR is? Will these mics connected via an XLR cable record the sound onto the same DV tape that the HV40 is recording the picture onto? or will I require a separate sound recorder?

    What do you think of this kind of stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...one_Stand.html

    Because I can only think of a couple of examples of using the mic outside which mic would you go for if you were me? The Rode NTG-2 or the Azden SgM-2X?

    I apologize for my ignorance

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    Tropical Legend cgbier's Avatar
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    If you use it mostly indoors, I'd go with the Azden. On paper, it is not as good as the Røde, but you'll sweeten your sound in post in any way (I hope ). It cleans up pretty easily.

    Yeah, that mic stand would work. Those thingies have been mainstay on TV talk shows before lavalieres came up.

    In regards to external recorder: That is up to you (and your budget). Keep in mind, though, that the HV preamps are not the best. With a cheap H1, or Tascam equivalent, you'll get a better sound. I mostly use both, tethering the H1 to the HV's mic in. That has the advantage that you have two audio sources - just in case one gets corrupted. Redundant audio is pretty important. If your visuals get f'ed up, you always can cover that somehow. If you lose your audio, you're screwed.
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    Cheers Cgbler, you've been a huge help. Can you walk me through what I need to do to set it all up to the HV40 if I do purchase the Azden, an H1 or Tascam "thingy". Are the H1 and Tascams particular products or a brand of product? And could you please tell me what XLR is?

    Again you help is much appreciated!

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    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgbier View Post
    If you use it mostly indoors, I'd go with the Azden. On paper, it is not as good as the Røde, but you'll sweeten your sound in post in any way (I hope ).
    You can always check this video I've done using an NTG2:

    It'll show that it's not that bad for a shotgun indoor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dist0 View Post
    Are the H1 and Tascams particular products or a brand of product? And could you please tell me what XLR is?
    1) H1 is a product from ZOOM, model H1 while Tascam is a brand, which has several models. Personally, as a former Zoom user, I'd recommend you to go with a Tascam (I own the DR-05 = longer battery life) compared to the Zoom H2 that I used to work with in the past. But it all comes down to a matter of preference as both devices are good.
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    I prefer a Sennheiser MKE 400 from Samy's Camera. If you buy the extras, you'll get a little blimp for wind and an XLR adapter.
    HV20, HV30 & HV40; HF G20; AT822 & MKE400 mics; WD43 & TL43 lenses; IRV focus ring; Olympus WS321M digital recorder & ME15 mic; Dell XPS laptop; Vegas Pro 11

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    XLR are the plugs with the three pins. Some reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio

    What you need: The microphone (I still pledge for the Azden), XLR cable, the Pearstone transformer, a recorder (Zoom H1 or Tascam is up to your taste). You can connect the headphone out of your recorder with your cam's mic input via a readily available cable with two male 1/8" plugs.
    The whole setup should cost you ~400 bucks (incl. mic stand).
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    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgbier View Post
    The microphone (I still pledge for the Azden)
    Never said it wasn't a good one, but if I compare the SGM-1x to the NTG2, it's day & night...the later being the better.
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

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    Do you reckon it will be easy enough to put together with the instructions etc for a total newbie? Are there any descriptions / diagrams etc that will make it a bit easier ?

    Will this set up record sound to the recorder and allow the HV40 to record it independently?

    Thanks for the video, it would be great to see a video of the Azden....

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    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dist0 View Post
    Are there any descriptions / diagrams etc that will make it a bit easier ?
    Will this set up record sound to the recorder and allow the HV40 to record it independently?
    Thanks for the video, it would be great to see a video of the Azden....
    1) To make it simple, here's how I'd describe it:
    Microphone> XLR-to-3.5mm> Recorder's mic input> headphone's output> HV40's mic input.
    So you'd get something "close" to that:

    (Just replace the JuicedLink CX211 by the recorder and it's the same).
    2) Using this setup it would record on both devices: recorder + HV40. So you'd get a backup audio in case something goes wrong with either one device or the other.
    3) Just check my vimeo profile, there's another BoomPole video in which I used my Azden SGM-1x in it. The difference is quite noticeable, even if both videos can't really be compared because the locations are different (ambient noise/wall reflections not being the same). But you'll get a basic idea about the sound.
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    Thank you so much for that now I can see how it all fits together. So you basically plug the recorder into the camera by plugging the HV40s mic input into the recorders headphones output. What's the best cord to use for that? Then you can still monitor the projects sound through the HV40s headphones output?
    In the pic it looks like the camera sits nicely on the recorder have you set up a mount or something?

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    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dist0 View Post
    Thank you so much for that now I can see how it all fits together. So you basically plug the recorder into the camera by plugging the HV40s mic input into the recorders headphones output. What's the best cord to use for that? Then you can still monitor the projects sound through the HV40s headphones output?
    In the pic it looks like the camera sits nicely on the recorder have you set up a mount or something?
    1) Everything fits perfectly together.
    2) Exactly. Recorder-Headphone's out to HV40-Mic in.
    3) Any 3.5mm Male-Male would do. It's nothing expensive. Just check the length.
    4) Yep, you can monitor from the HV40's headphone, an as the Heaphones' output is generally loud enough, you can lower the Mic input on the camera, and record with less noise from the HV40's internal preamp. That's something I like.
    5) In the picture I've linked, the HV40 is on cavision rails, and under that there's a JuicedLink CX211 (preamp). But using a 1/4 cold shoe and the recorder could sit on the HV40's hot shoe.
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    So you suggest replacing the Juicedlink with a recorder so that I can record the sound from the external mic on the recorder and the HV40s tape, ultimately capturing the source via two different methods. Because that sounds perfect! So does your set up using cavision ralls and 1/4 cold shoe allow for all this gear to be set up on the one tripod? What would you suggest I use if I was thinking of putting the external mic on is own stand? What would be your advice on what gear to get and which is the best recorder?

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    Tropical Legend cgbier's Avatar
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    There are cases for the recorders that you can simply attach to whatever you want with velcro strips.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dist0 View Post
    So you suggest replacing the Juicedlink with a recorder so that I can record the sound from the external mic on the recorder and the HV40s tape, ultimately capturing the source via two different methods. Because that sounds perfect! So does your set up using cavision ralls and 1/4 cold shoe allow for all this gear to be set up on the one tripod? What would you suggest I use if I was thinking of putting the external mic on is own stand? What would be your advice on what gear to get and which is the best recorder?
    Yeah, it would record on both device, one being of an higher quality than the HV.

    About putting everything on a tripod using simply the rails, I don't think it would work. But there are other options, like DSLR cage would be more versatile.
    The mic on a stand is a good idea. The closer the mic is from the the source, the best sound it will capture.
    Drapes got a ZoomH2 first, and finally replaced it with a Tascam DR-05. He says the Tascam his better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie_tango View Post
    The mic on a stand is a good idea. The closer the mic is from the the source, the best sound it will capture.
    I totally agree. If possible (number of available crew) maybe try a boom pole. You could make a DIY boom out of a painter's pole, or I've used this one and like it: boom pole If you DIY, just be sure to wrap the cord around the pole and mind tapping it against things. That caused me a few head aches.

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