7D or New 5D Mark III?

[Aaron Shirley]

I plan to purchase my first DSLR soon, and I pretty much thought I was going to get the 7D, as it suits my needs best. But now the new Mark III is coming out and looks pretty sweet, although costly. Since this is my first DSLR, I will need a good wide angle lens, battery grip etc.

My dilemma is that I plan to keep the camera for over 10 years and would like the latest technology. I have to keep in mind the cost of everything though. I am not sure which lens I will need yet since I am new to DSLR photography and the cost. I would like a good wide angle lens with little distortion. Not a fisheye, but a lens with about a 120 or 130 field of view. Wide angle shots make fish look bigger for magazines, something I plan to get into when I am happy with my photography.

Will the 7D be good enough to submit photos to fishing magazines or will the full frame Mark III be best?

Which wide angle lens would be best for each camera with little distortion? Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but I am a total noob when it comes to DSLR photography, and many of you have a wealth of experience.

The 5D Mark III does look like a great camera with the latest technology and better weatherproofing than the Mark II. What do you guys think? Should I bite the bullet and spend the dough on the Mark III with the latest tech since I plan to keep it over 10 years? Or should I get the 7D (my second choice for my applications)?

Any advice on the bodies and wide angle lens would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Aaron

[Frank]

I wouldn't buy cutting edge technology unless you really need it. It's unlikely that you will keep a camera body for 10 years, as the technology improves so rapidly. New technology sells at a premium and quickly depreciates. Buy what you need now, don't try to future-proof yourself; it can't be done. fwiw, I have a 7D and love it for all kinds of photography (and video).

[Rainer]

Aaron, this is a video forum, but since one of the major disadvantages of a HDSLR for video is you end up taking more stills than video, you should get a few opinions. Mine: even if 21 megapixels is enough, mirror SLR technology is outdated. Whatever you buy, in five years you'll be looking at another camera and no-one will want your 5DIII or 7D. (I'm just hoping that when Canon brings out a mirrorless SL camera, EF lenses will fit). Anyhow, since you're talking wide stills, you'd have to go with either the 5DII or III. For the $1000 price difference there really doesn't seem much advantage of the III over the II, (none for video) and you're better off using the money for lenses. If you're talking wide ultra/wide, on a 1.6 crop like the 7D, best you can go is 8mm, equivalent to around 13mm on a 5DII/III, where you can also go 8mm (for a lot more money). The bigger sensor also gets you the equivalent of two extra stops. If a photo looks good, a magazine won't care what camera you used.

[Shaunp007]

7D. Its weather-proofed, it shoots 8fps which is great for sports photography(fishing!) which is better than the 5dmk2 (3fps). The spec sheet on the 5dmk3 has it at 6fps continous shooting. I don't think the picture quality difference is going to be so drastic that would justify your extra $1.5k. I own a canon 5dmk2 and I love it for video and landscape photography, but if I was into sports photography, I would have bought a 7d. just my 2 cents.

[Bertzie]

Aaron, this is a video forum, but since one of the major disadvantages of a HDSLR for video is you end up taking more stills than video, you should get a few opinions. Mine: even if 21 megapixels is enough, mirror SLR technology is outdated. Whatever you buy, in five years you'll be looking at another camera and no-one will want your 5DIII or 7D. (I'm just hoping that when Canon brings out a mirrorless SL camera, EF lenses will fit). Anyhow, since you're talking wide stills, you'd have to go with either the 5DII or III. For the $1000 price difference there really doesn't seem much advantage of the III over the II, (none for video) and you're better off using the money for lenses. If you're talking wide ultra/wide, on a 1.6 crop like the 7D, best you can go is 8mm, equivalent to around 13mm on a 5DII/III, where you can also go 8mm (for a lot more money). The bigger sensor also gets you the equivalent of two extra stops. If a photo looks good, a magazine won't care what camera you used.

Rumors say Canons Cinema EOS DSLR will most likely be mirrorless, and use EF mounts. It'll also probably cost a boat-load of money.

For the OP: I'd say go with the 7d. Taking it fishing, there's a high possibility of it ending up in a lake. And weather sealed does not mean waterproof.

[Bif]

Aaron, the last time you asked for recommendations I was pushing the 7D for it's weather sealing with "most L series" lenses. Now, there's a new player coming on the scene...

...Well, and old player with new camera design.

Olympus is about to release their OMD E-M5 and cost will be a fraction of the 5D MkIII. Google for that model, read articles, and LOOK AT RELEASED SAMPLE IMAGES!

Early testers are talking CLEAN high ISO up to 6400, I've seen one image at 12,800 I can live with (ISO goes up to 25,600). Camera is mirrorless, has one of the most advanced electronic viewfinders made BUILT IN. Main advantage to you of this high ISO performance will be faster shutter speeds to freeze action.

Price: One "kit" option will be body with a weather sealed 12-50mm f3.5-5.6 zoom (that's full frame equiv of 24mm to 100mm, my current widest "kit" lens is only 28mm equivalent at the wide end). The body is weather sealed with that lens. Price $1299. Other initial options are body only for $999, or with (non weather sealed) 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 "kit" zoom for $1099.

Release date on this will be April 10th and they are taking pre-orders now at B&H and Adorama, I am not pre-ordering so once I see "early adopters" feel it's living up to the hype (and I think it will, Olympus is serious) it will take me awhile to get mine and if I go for it I'll go for the 12-50mm weather sealed lens option.

It's designed for Micro Four Thirds system lenses and the sensor is only slightly smaller than the 7D's APS-C, the "crop factor" is 2x. I've been trying out the MFT system with a little Olympus Pen e-PL1 (almost pocket size with some lenses) and I like what I'm getting.

There's two main players in the MFT "game", Olympus and Panasonic. The other major players like Nikon, Pentax, Samsung, and Sony are all coming out with competing "me too" designs of their own, but totally incompatible with MFT, of course. Sigma is starting to produce some MFT lenses so that makes three manufacturers offering lenses.''

You might do some Google research and look at it. I'll likely take that direction myself but I will "look before I leap". Olympus does have a past record of producing excellent quality gear.

Olympus OMD E-M5

Bruce Foreman

[Aaron Shirley]

Thanks for the responses guys. It is difficult to justify the high cost of the 5D Mark III, and the 7D will do what I need. Thanks again.

Also, thank you Bif for the Olympus suggestion. That camera sounds interesting, and the price is great. I'll definitely look into that camera, read up on it, and then read some reviews when it comes out. I'm in no rush to buy. I plan to keep the camera for a long time, so I would like to be happy with the feel in my big hands, options, performance and weatherproofing. If the Olympus covers all that with such a great price tag, which it sounds like it does, I will look very closely at it.

Thanks everyone!

Aaron

[agp26]

For European buyers, the 5dmkiii is around 3200 chf in switzerland (according to dpreview forums), the d800 is similarly competitively priced (near us prices). So those in UK, or scandinavia (me), time for a holiday to switzerland...

Srry no links, too lazy to dig them up, but check out the forums. One reason is that Swiss VAT/GST is 8%. The rest I can't understand (3200 chf vs 3000 gbp?!!!!!)...ditto, in norway the 5d3 is 29 nok or 5k USD close enough....

Woohoo, Geneva here I come!

[zephyrnoid]

Olympus is about to release their OMD E-M5 and cost will be a fraction of the 5D MkIII. Google for that model, read articles, and LOOK AT RELEASED SAMPLE IMAGES!

Early testers are talking CLEAN high ISO up to 6400, I've seen one image at 12,800 I can live with (ISO goes up to 25,600). Camera is mirrorless, has one of the most advanced electronic ....
You might do some Google research and look at it. I'll likely take that direction myself but I will "look before I leap". Olympus does have a past record of producing excellent quality gear.

Olympus OMD E-M5

Bruce Foreman

Hey Bruce! Great find. got me scrambling to read up on it. I also like what i've seen so far but really need to pin down the 'usual suspects' - Moire, Jello, max movie length at 1080 etc.
Any leads on links to answer some of those question?
Thanks again!

[zephyrnoid]

a Ah CH.... are those FNAC prices?

For European buyers, the 5dmkiii is around 3200 chf in switzerland (according to dpreview forums), the d800 is similarly competitively priced (near us prices). So those in UK, or scandinavia (me), time for a holiday to switzerland...

Srry no links, too lazy to dig them up, but check out the forums. One reason is that Swiss VAT/GST is 8%. The rest I can't understand (3200 chf vs 3000 gbp?!!!!!)...ditto, in norway the 5d3 is 29 nok or 5k USD close enough....

Woohoo, Geneva here I come!

[Bif]

Hey Bruce! Great find. got me scrambling to read up on it. I also like what i've seen so far but really need to pin down the 'usual suspects' - Moire, Jello, max movie length at 1080 etc.
Any leads on links to answer some of those question?
Thanks again!

Max file length will still be 4GB, no word from testers on moire, but it looks like they've done something with the shutter (faster more efficient sensor scan per frame or something like that) that reduces the "rolling shutter" effect.

I've read that the sensor in both the Olympus and Panasonic Micro Four Thirds cameras is from the same manufacturer and the fact that moire is not as serious a problem in the Panasonic GH2 as in the Canon APS-C models is encouraging.

I had stated that I was not going to pre-order the new Olympus OMD but I have.

"Life is short. Eat dessert first."

Bruce Foreman

[Bif]

For the OP: I'd say go with the 7d. Taking it fishing, there's a high possibility of it ending up in a lake. And weather sealed does not mean waterproof.

This is a very good point to keep in mind. NONE OF THE WEATHER SEALED CAMERAS will likely survive total immersion (dunking fer us word challenged folks). If this is a strong possibility I would have at least an EWA Marine underwater "baggie" for it.

Bruce Foreman

[cgbier]

Olympus has been using Panasonic sensors for a couple of years, since the original supplier, Kodak, wasn't able to deliver what was needed.
Luckily, Panasonic was able to get Kodak's color rendering together (I still love my E-1 for its colors, despite all its other shortcomings).

[Dr. Benway]

It is difficult to justify the high cost of the 5D Mark III, and the 7D will do what I need.

It is.

I wouldn't buy cutting edge technology unless you really need it. It's unlikely that you will keep a camera body for 10 years, as the technology improves so rapidly.

This, I disagree with completely. It is the opposite of what I advise people querying me about cameras. Aaron, I think the 7D is a great camera. The 5D MKIII needs to drop in price. Back to Frank's point. I always recommend people spend a lot initially; an investment in pro gear that could feasibly last them 15+ years if cared for. If you are doing paid professional photography or video work your gear will age faster. Personally, I could see a 5D MKIII lasting me 20+ years. My 5D (Classic) is nearing 6 years of use - without a single repair or fault.

[cgbier]

+1.
"Pros" normally don't change their gear as often as "consumers" do. Taking a 5-year write-off into the equation, you don't start to really make money from your gear before the sixth year of ownership. Therefore, you want to buy something that'll hold a couple of years. Spending a bit more in the beginning pays off in the long run.

The furious pace of technical development has slowed down quite a bit. There are less milestone developments coming out lately, but rather refinement of existing technology. The days of big jumps are over.

[Janke]

Isn't Moore's law working, anymore?

[cgbier]

Of course, Moore's law is still intact. However, when did we see the last real revolution in video?

VHS/Hi8 --> DV --> HDV --> flash memory based cams .... and then?

[Janke]

I'm holding my breath...

[Gillvane]

Of course, Moore's law is still intact. However, when did we see the last real revolution in video?

VHS/Hi8 --> DV --> HDV --> flash memory based cams .... and then?

4k. It's here, just not affordable yet.

[Bertzie]

Of course, Moore's law is still intact. However, when did we see the last real revolution in video?

VHS/Hi8 --> DV --> HDV --> flash memory based cams .... and then?

We're still a good while away from Flash memory being replaced. Five years at least before it even hits the market, let alone becomes a viable alternative.

[cgbier]

4k. It's here, just not affordable yet.

The sensors themselves are there. When you think that VDSLR's and many palm cams' native resolutions are in the 10+ MP region, it would be easy to adapt them to a higher video resolution. The pipeline speed for the signal is also there. What's lacking is affordable devices to show your work, and the willingness of mfgs. to invest in 4k to let it go mainstream.

[Janke]

I'd rather see a consumer camera that would make a good job of shrinking the whole 18 Mpixels into a good, alias-free 2k (or 1920x1080) video...

It is possible, but needs a LOT more processing power than the cameras presently have. But here, Moore's law will help, sooner or later...

Examples (click for full size) - the top image is an 18 Mpix still shrunk to 1920 wide, the bottom is the HD video the T2i/550D camera produces (both are 100% extracts from a HD-size frame).

Edit: Check the leftmost CD in the photos - it's a bit tilted, but you don't see any aliasing in the edge of either image. (What looks like aliasing in the third CD is actually perforations in the brown paper insert... )

[Gillvane]

The sensors themselves are there. When you think that VDSLR's and many palm cams' native resolutions are in the 10+ MP region, it would be easy to adapt them to a higher video resolution. The pipeline speed for the signal is also there. What's lacking is affordable devices to show your work, and the willingness of mfgs. to invest in 4k to let it go mainstream.

I'm actually sold on 4k acquisition and 1080p or 2k display. I don't need 4k movie theaters or TV's to see the usefulness of shooting in 4k and downrezzing.

It really cuts down on all the compression artifacts, makes for a nice clean image, and gives you lots of flexibility for color grading, and FX, stabilization, etc.

Plus the future proof argument, you can always re-release a 4k print later down the road if everything goes that way and your project is still relevant.