Gas prices. Is everyone feeling it?

[cgbier]

It is them liberal commies on the west coast taxing the lalala out of the people... them folks in WY are still upright, tax-hating Americans.

Janke, when you look back on pre-revolution US history, you could think that country was founded by tax evaders and smugglers
Not to offend any Americans here.

[kenkyusha]

If you live in a big city like Boston, public transportation makes sense, but doesn't work in low density areas like where I live.

My current daily commute to work via public transportation takes 1.5 hours each way (driving is only 40 minutes +/-). We are in the process of buying a house (and a second car because the new location will be more like 2+ hours each way on the 'T'...)

Add that to the fact that the MBTA (our local transit authority) is threatening to curtail service and increase prices to stem operational losses and things aren't so rosy for public transport in Boston either.

[Khaver]

Lived in Israel back in the 80's. The public transport system there was great (don't know what it's like today). You could get anywhere in a bus or sherut (small van) at about 10 to 20 min intervals.

Here, in Oregon gas today is at ~$3.85/gal. I bought a Honda Fit several years ago when gas was around $4.00/gal. Gets about 35mpg in a mixture of highway and city driving (my commute one way is ~32 miles). Cost me $16k (sport model). Looks like it was a good investment.

[Gillvane]

i thought the fair tax was still based as a consumer tax on new goods and services. i remember right, there was no fair tax on used cars or houses or other used items, only new consumer items.

You're correct. The Fair Tax is on new items only.

I'd also be happy with Herman Cain's 999 tax.

Or any tax that gets rid of all the loopholes, deductions, exemptions, and exclusions that make companies spend billions of dollars every year hiring accountants and lawyers and lobbying Congress to figure out the tax code.

The US tax code should be 5 or 10 pages long. Instead, it's the size of 4 or 5 telephone books from a large city.

[Lunchbox]

wow! TV news just reported $5.09 per gallon (regular 87 octane) at the Chevron gas station in China town Los Angeles.

[Gillvane]

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...134550480.html

5 bucks a gallon in CA? That's scary because this is supposedly the BEGINNING of the rise in gas prices. Gas is expected to increase in price all summer long.

The above link explains the Straights of Hormuz.

[Janke]

$5.09 per gallon (regular 87 octane)

The $8+ Finnish gas price I mentioned was for 98 octane (5% ethanol). Not that 95 octane (10% ethanol) is much cheaper, maybe 30¢ or so.

Re public transport, I practically never take my car downtown. From where I live, two bus lines go straight downtown, neither stop further than 300 yards from my door... and I hardly ever have to wait more than 10 minutes. (At -20F, no fun, though... )

commies on the west coast taxing the lalala out of the people...

So the map below could just as well indicate gas prices, then?

usapoliticalmap-20111007T014401-yhlln5z.jpg

[Almohada]

Holy lalalala $5.09 .......

[Khaver]

Janke, overlay a gas price map over that party control map and they would coincide pretty closely. Basically, Dems are for bigger government which requires more tax revenue.

[dearcatastrophe]

janke, not necessarily. the best gas prices are in colorado, utah and wyoming.

[Almohada]

the best gas prices are in colorado, utah and wyoming.

True. http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx

[Bob Sanders]

You can buy a Prius for about 25k, or you can buy any one of these:

If it's any consolation... Prius fuel mileage drops like stone in cold weather. (you gotta run the engine for any kind of reasonable heat, and at -35 it's running ALL the time). Still beats the mileage of a larger 8 banger but not by any stretch does it meet the advertized fuel savings in the end.

[Bob Sanders]

From where I live, two bus lines go straight downtown,

Bus!?! YUK! I haven't been on one of those things in 25 years.... don't plan to either.

[dearcatastrophe]

If it's any consolation... Prius fuel mileage drops like stone in cold weather. (you gotta run the engine for any kind of reasonable heat, and at -35 it's running ALL the time). Still beats the mileage of a larger 8 banger but not by any stretch does it meet the advertized fuel savings in the end.

that, plus if you drive the prius like a normal car, you get pretty cruddy gas mileage and really cruddy performance. top gear tested a bmw m3 against a prius on a track and when driven the same way, the m3 averaged 1mpg better then the prius.
i used to have a 2004 civic hybrid, and could average 63 mpg if i drove carefully and used everything to my advantage.
i'm just happy my 4runner gets 24. all a prius would do here is get stuck.

you also have to factor in mileage with savings, when you pay more for a prius, unless you drive quite a bit, your cost of ownership doesn't match the fuel savings. i figured all this out when i bought my civic. but i got the hybrid for 500 bucks over cost when it came out, before gas started going up.
and my honda still delivers, even after selling it, i'm getting 100 dollars from honda for the settling of the lawsuit over mileage.

the worst thing i hate about the prius besides the clunky hybrid system is the gas bladder.
running two motors into planetary gears just isn't the best way to do things, and it shows. the last one i drove had clunky transitions. the honda system of replacing the flywheel with an electric motor is a smarter concept, although it can't run electric alone. it allows for smoother power transition, and makes starting the car a lot easier when the flywheel is already turning. plus, you can go straight from the motor to a cvt , without the need of additional gearing like the prius uses.

[Gillvane]

If it's any consolation... Prius fuel mileage drops like stone in cold weather. (you gotta run the engine for any kind of reasonable heat, and at -35 it's running ALL the time). Still beats the mileage of a larger 8 banger but not by any stretch does it meet the advertized fuel savings in the end.

What's the tech reason behind this? Why lower mileage in cold weather?

[Bob Sanders]

What's the tech reason behind this? Why lower mileage in cold weather?

You have to burn gasoline to generate any kind of reasonable heat. And heat's not JUST needed to keep the cabin warm, but also to keep the windows from frosting up. It should also be noted that Battery output drops like a stone in cold temps.

[cgbier]

...and until the engines reaches its temperature, the gas/air mixture is fatter. You drive a car less than two or three miles in the winter, you waste a lot of gas.

[Bob Sanders]

You drive a car less than two or three miles in the winter, you waste a lot of gas.

As stated before, my fuel mileage drops from about 550Km per tank in the summer to around 350Km per tank in the Winter. It's more than just mixture though. 10 minutes of warm up time to go anywhere with at least 15 for the first start of the day (thank gawd for remote start!).... and a ton of wheel spin, increased idling times ( you tend not to shut the engine off for short stops at the corner store and such)

[Gillvane]

I'm thinking natural gas vehicles. They run forklifts on propane all the time. Should work for a car just fine, it's relatively clean, and no long recharge times.

Maybe later they can finally figure out the hydrogen tank problems, and make hydrogen with nuclear plants. The electric car seems to have a lot of problems, cold weather as mentioned, the energy to MAKE the batteries, the heavy metals in the batteries, the long charge times, the fact they're powered by coal and oil fired plants, doesn't really seem like electric is a solution.

[Bif]

Two weeks ago (before the latest round of gas price spikes) I traded in two older low mileage vehicles for a 2011 Honda CR-V with only 17,300 miles on it. The way they have traffic lights programmed in San Angelo the best I was getting with the vehicles I had was about 16.5 MPG, the CR-V seems to be getting me 20-21.5 in city driving so far.

I haven't had a chance to take it on a trip anywhere yet to see what it does on the highway.

Bruce Foreman

[cgbier]

I'm thinking natural gas vehicles.

Been there, done that. Gas was about 50% cheaper, but my gas mileage went down 50% also. Natural gas has a very short carbon chain, and, therefore, isn't as energy dense as gasoline.

[Bob Sanders]

I'm thinking natural gas vehicles. They run forklifts on propane all the time. Should work for a car just fine, it's relatively clean, and no long recharge times.

Maybe later they can finally figure out the hydrogen tank problems, and make hydrogen with nuclear plants. The electric car seems to have a lot of problems, cold weather as mentioned, the energy to MAKE the batteries, the heavy metals in the batteries, the long charge times, the fact they're powered by coal and oil fired plants, doesn't really seem like electric is a solution.

Natural gas is cleaner but at the end of the day it's still a fossil fuel and therefore emits Co2 and is not an 'endless' supply. It may be cheaper NOW, but the price would go up with more cars using it.

I still believe electricity is the way to go. It CAN be generated cleanly and can also be never ending. You can even generate it yourself, which would mean near-free transportation.

[cgbier]

It CAN be generated cleanly and can also be never ending.

Don't bank on it. The sun will stop working in 5.5 billion years.

[Bob Sanders]

Don't bank on it. The sun will stop working in 5.5 billion years.

I bet ya humans will stop working (cease to exist) long before that.

[Gillvane]

Natural gas is cleaner but at the end of the day it's still a fossil fuel and therefore emits Co2 and is not an 'endless' supply. It may be cheaper NOW, but the price would go up with more cars using it.

I still believe electricity is the way to go. It CAN be generated cleanly and can also be never ending. You can even generate it yourself, which would mean near-free transportation.

I haven't seen anything yet that comes close to being a real solution that involves batteries. Yea, it allows some people to trade money spent at the gas pump for an expensive car, but studies show no real energy savings when you factor in the energy used to make the batteries.

I was chatting with a friend about this last night. He needs an 8 cylinder truck for his landscaping business, and hauls around equipment, loads of dirt, tools, tows a trailer, and hauls around laborers in the truck, etc.

Any battery currently on the market would be dead by 10 am before his day is even getting started. I don't think they even make a battery that would power his truck. A Prius isn't going to get the job done.

All our goods are delivered by 18 wheel tractor trailers.

I don't know of any battery that can power them across country, up mountains, hauling as much as they do, and imagine how long it would take to charge such a battery if it even existed. Battery powered 747's? Battery powered ocean liners? I don't think so.

The electric car so far is a "feel good" thing for the environmentalists but not a real solution.