Gas prices. Is everyone feeling it?

[Gillvane]

Been there, done that. Gas was about 50% cheaper, but my gas mileage went down 50% also. Natural gas has a very short carbon chain, and, therefore, isn't as energy dense as gasoline.

One huge benefit is countries controlled by radical Islamists don't have as much natural gas as they do oil. Natural gas may not be more cost effective, but it's less likely to be subject to spikes due to unrest in Totalitarian regimes.

[cgbier]

...and you didn't hear the stories that the Islamist Republic of Russia has cut down gas delivery to western Europe already a couple of times?
Where you find oil, you find gas in most cases. The difference is that the Arabian oil fields are that mature that it has been syphoned off already (and burned on the spot).

[cgbier]

Over the last couple of years, spikes came from speculation. The sheiks themselves were flabbergasted how high the prices were all in a sudden.

[Gillvane]

...and you didn't hear the stories that the Islamist Republic of Russia has cut down gas delivery to western Europe already a couple of times?
Where you find oil, you find gas in most cases. The difference is that the Arabian oil fields are that mature that it has been syphoned off already (and burned on the spot).

Overview: Designated as a State Sponsor of Terrorism in 1984, Iran remained the most active state sponsor of terrorism in 2010. Iran’s financial, material, and logistic support for terrorist and militant groups throughout the Middle East and Central Asia had a direct impact on international efforts to promote peace, threatened economic stability in the Gulf, and undermined the growth of democracy.


Maybe you agree with Noam Chomsky:

United States
Main article: United States and state terrorism

The United States was accused of being a state sponsor of terrorism for their support of Cuban exiles Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch. [91] USA also nurtured and supported Afgan Mujahideen under Reagan Doctrine which would eventually form Al-Qaeda headed by Bin Laden.[92][93] American dissident Noam Chomsky has referred to the United States as "a Leading Terrorist State".[94]

I tend to look at what each nation is trying to accomplish.

What is Iran trying to accomplish? Free liberal democracies all over the world? Or Theocracies all over the world?

To me it makes a difference. For some people, it doesn't. Some people think Theocracies that don't give women rights and free liberal democracies are morally equivalent. Neither one is right or wrong, they're just different "cultures".

[Gillvane]

Over the last couple of years, spikes came from speculation. The sheiks themselves were flabbergasted how high the prices were all in a sudden.

Let's say you're pumping money out of the ground to pay for your military. You can't do it with your economy because you like to keep people ignorant, and keep half your population without rights (women), and that takes up a lot of your time and resources.

What would be in your best interest? Cheap oil and peace, or the threat of war and skyrocketing oil prices?

[kenkyusha]

I'm thinking natural gas vehicles. They run forklifts on propane all the time. Should work for a car just fine, it's relatively clean, and no long recharge times.

Natural gas that is acquired how- Fracking?

[Gillvane]

Natural gas that is acquired how- Fracking?

It would be nice if there was a perfect energy source. So far, no one has found it.

Nuclear creates long lasting waste. Oil funds terrorism in the Middle East, and burning gasoline creates a real pollutant, carbon monoxide. Solar power destroys habitat because of the vast areas needed to generate any amount of usable power. Dams can destroy fish species, wind turbines kill birds, and the list goes on.

I'm not aware of any problems related to GeoThermal power, but it's not practical unless you live somewhere with geothermal activity close enough to the surface to use it, but not about to turn into a volcano.

I think more studies have to be done on fracking. I don't know if it can be done safely or not.

[cgbier]

I'm not aware of any problems related to GeoThermal power

Water pollution would be one. There have been reports on that issue from Italy years ago.

There are some energy sources that are pretty much unintrusive - OTEC (Israel and Hawaii are big in that one) or tide/wave power.
Solar energy shines when it is used in small scales (meaning private buildings). That's why it is not liked by the energy industry.
Besides waste, another problem we have with nuclear power is that we'll be out of uranium in about 70 years, and digging for uranium hurts the environment more than burning oil. Additionally, nuclear plants produce a whole lot of water vapor and are not the best for river biotopes (heating up the water too much). AND: They are not a cheap solution.

[Gillvane]

Water pollution would be one. There have been reports on that issue from Italy years ago.

There are some energy sources that are pretty much unintrusive - OTEC (Israel and Hawaii are big in that one) or tide/wave power.
Solar energy shines when it is used in small scales (meaning private buildings). That's why it is not liked by the energy industry.
Besides waste, another problem we have with nuclear power is that we'll be out of uranium in about 70 years, and digging for uranium hurts the environment more than burning oil. Additionally, nuclear plants produce a whole lot of water vapor and are not the best for river biotopes (heating up the water too much). AND: They are not a cheap solution.

you paint a bleak future. Without energy modern society supporting Billions cannot exist.

However, there's more Uranium available than you might think, and it doesn't require digging into the Earth:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2007/11/two...n-for-720.html

I bet you could devise a relatively simple air cooling tower for the heated water problem.

[Almohada]

My car is on EMPTY. Gotta fill her up today. 10 bucks worth. Ouch.

[Bob Sanders]

Without energy modern society supporting Billions cannot exist.

Who said there is (or will be) no energy?? First, the primary law of physics.... Energy can not be created nor destroyed, means that it's always around. It's just a matter of getting at it in such a way that is not detrimental to life as we know it (which in itself is almost impossible). So we are left with the idea of choosing the least of the evils. Regardless to that however... man will do what man needs to do in order to survive.... and if that means messing up the earth.... then so be it.

[Bob Sanders]

My car is on EMPTY. Gotta fill her up today. 10 bucks worth. Ouch.

10 bucks?!? I filled mine today. It was closer to $110

[Almohada]

10 bucks?!? I filled mine today. It was closer to $110

Yeah, all I have. My school is like a mile or two away but with my gas guzzler makes I have to fill up all the time. Sometimes only $5

[Bertzie]

For $5, I could go about 15 miles.

[dearcatastrophe]

got gas today. noticed that the mid grade (87) and the premium (91) were both $3.23. unleaded (85) was still 3.13.

[Almohada]

Prices dipped a few cents today so I filled up. 2.3 gallons... yikes.

[cgbier]

$5.15 since Tuesday this week (+$.10)

[Gillvane]

$5.15 since Tuesday this week (+$.10)

Wow! That sucks!

I"m also not happy about the ethanol. All the gas I get has ethanol in it which is not good for the car, and gets less mileage than gas without ethanol.

It's only there because the government subsidizes ethanol production. You can find a few gas stations which sell gas with no ethanol but it's about 30 cents higher per gallon than the gas with ethanol in it.

Get rid of the ethanol subsidies, and use the money you spend on that to lower the taxes on gasoline.

[cgbier]

It's only there because the government subsidizes ethanol production.

No, it is in there as it has a strong lobby. Get some folks together, collect money and outspend Monsanto and the farmers in Washington, and you'll see how quick ethanol will disappear.

[1]

We sold quite a few machines into Ethanol production, so it's alright by me. After all, the mighty $$$ rules!

[Gillvane]

We sold quite a few machines into Ethanol production, so it's alright by me. After all, the mighty $$$ rules!

That mighty dollar is coming out the pockets of your fellow tax payers, and they're not getting a good return for their money. It costs more to make ethanol when you count all the energy used to grow the corn, produce the fertilizer, harvest it, and distill it, than the energy you get out of it burning it in a car. It's retarded.

Drink ethanol, don't burn it. It also makes groceries higher since farm production is burned in gas tanks instead of putting food on someone's table.

[Gillvane]

No, it is in there as it has a strong lobby. Get some folks together, collect money and outspend Monsanto and the farmers in Washington, and you'll see how quick ethanol will disappear.

Sorry, I just dont' by Monsanto conspiracy theory. It's like blaming Haliburton for everything.

Are you talking about this?

http://www.salon.com/2007/03/26/triple_stacked_hybrids/

Monsanto just responds to the market, like any good company. If you want to grow it, Monsanto will engineer plants that will give you higher yields for what you are growing. That's a good thing.

After all, you need corn to make Vodka too. Why would I want some farmer to use seeds that dont' produce as much corn? Makes no sense to me.

[cgbier]

So you mean Monsanto isn't paying one cent on lobbying?

"Good company"? On what planet are you living?

[1]

...of your fellow tax payers,

Screw them! As long as I can sell machines!



Added:
Maybe I should put this on my quote next time, if I suspect the machine might get used in an Ethanol Plant for combustion engine fuel use:


----------
We herewith quote:

- 4 (four) machines XL3000-53 for USD 55'800.00/each
- FCA L.A.
- delivery time 2 month from date of order

Please be advised that if you order these machines and use them in a facility that manufactures fuel used in combustion engines it costs more to make your stupid ethanol
when you count all the energy used to grow the corn, produce the fertilizer, harvest it, and distill it, than the energy you get out of it burning it in a car.
You're retarded!!!

So, we'll only sell you the above mentioned machines if you kindly promise that our machines aren't used for ethanol production, unless it's Hiram Walker & Sons, Windsor ON, Canada, or Schenley Distillery in Valleyfield, QC, Canada, or any of the other legitimate Ethanol-for-human-consumption producers.
We will take it upon ourselves to taste-test all product produced by your facility. If we deem it to be fuel we will confiscate our machines with no refund!
---------


I don't see that to be very realistic, myself.

[cgbier]

Hey, Mal, we were discussing this week if we should revive our sugarcane industry. The first thing we came up with was the rum distillery we had on the island pre-war. You think you can give us a hint/link to the technology?