Gas prices. Is everyone feeling it?

[Gillvane]

Gas prices are going up at an alarming rate. It's a regressive cost. The more wealthy you are the less of an effect it has on you.

I suppose people that live in places like Germany might not feel it as much since there's a lot of public transportation, but I live the US and I have to drive everywhere.

By the way, public transportation isn't always the solution. Studies show that in places like where I live, public transportation uses MORE fuel than personal vehicles, because population densities are low. It costs more in fuel to take 2 people somewhere in a huge buss than it does for each of them to drive a car. Pack 50 people in the bus all day, it makes sense, but I don't live in a densely populated city.

[cgbier]

Nope. I always gas for a twenty. That has never changed....

I suppose people that live in places like Germany might not feel it as much since there's a lot of public transportation

Did it ever occur to you that it could also be the other around - that Germans use public transportation that much, because gas prices (plus cost of car ownership) are that high?

[Gillvane]

Nope. I always gas for a twenty. That has never changed....


Did it ever occur to you that it could also be the other around - that Germans use public transportation that much, because gas prices (plus cost of car ownership) are that high?

I actually lived in Germany for a year. Paid rent, went to the post office, bought groceries, dealt with the electric company, had health insurance, was in the hospital, etc., not just a tourist.

My point is I can't get on the bus if the gas for the car is to high. There is no bus.

[Bob Sanders]

, but I live the US and I have to drive everywhere.

You guys have nothing to complain about. The USA is pretty cheap for gas. Here in In Manitoba (Canada) we're paying about 4.45 a gallon... and that's on a good day. Europe is even worse, but as you note, they rely on public transportation more than we do.

I burn up at least $100 a week in gas.

[Almohada]

It's getting worse with each passing day. Can't even afford to drive to school anymore.

[dearcatastrophe]

it's 2.97 a gallon here right now.

[1]

My two Hummers are doing fine.

You guys are just too poor!

[blondandfun]

I pay more in tickets than I do in gas.

[Almohada]

Just drove by a station with a local news reporter covering the skyrocket prices. Phoned home immediately to tell my folks about that channel, too bad the live report ended just as they tuned in.

[Daniel Rutter]

Well, here in Aus the prices have been really high for a while now. It was about $1.10 per litre a few years ago, but now we're looking at $1.40-1.60 some days. Doesn't seem like much, but we're the country who used to sell fuel at 90c a litre just 10 years ago.

I think the U.S cops it more, though I'm not exactly sure why.

[cgbier]

I think the U.S cops it more, though I'm not exactly sure why.

War preparation? "See our gas prices! We have to invade Iran now!"

[Janke]

The more wealthy you are the less of an effect it has on you.

Just like any flat tax...

Gasoline here is 1.67 euros / liter at the moment, or $ 8.33 / US gallon...

[Gillvane]

Just like any flat tax...

Gasoline here is 1.67 euros / liter at the moment, or $ 8.33 / US gallon...

Except the Fair Tax which gives all people making less than the poverty rate a ZERO tax rate .

[Shaunp007]

$3.34 per gallon in Indiana. I drive 63 miles each way to work. I have a good job and car pool with 2 others so it really has not bothered me yet. I know some people who have limited their driving because of it though.

[cgbier]

$5.05/gal here right now - same as our minimum wage.

[Dr. Benway]

US$1.14 per litre here in Thailand.

US$4.32 per gallon?

[cgbier]

Poverty rate before or after taxes?

[Gillvane]

Poverty rate before or after taxes?

Here's how it works.

The Fair Tax is a 23% inclusive tax on all goods and services.

Under the Fair Tax everyone pays ZERO taxes on all goods and services up to the poverty level.

Let me say that again. Every citizen gets goods and services up to the poverty level at a ZERO tax rate.

How does the Fair Tax do this?

We calculate the Poverty Level:
http://www.liheap.ncat.org/profiles/...2/popstate.htm

It is assumed that if you are at the Poverty level, you will spend at least that amount of money, wherever it may come from, for food, shelter, and clothing.

We calculate the amount of taxes you would pay on that amount of money during the year. We divide by 12 months.

Each month everyone receives that amount of money to cover the taxes on all goods and services UP TO THE POVERTY LEVEL.

Anything you buy after that, you run out of "prebate" money to pay the taxes on the goods and services, and you have to pay out of your pocket a 23% inclusive tax.

People like Janke think this is some sort of "dole".

But it cannot be a "dole" because it doesn't pay for any goods and services, it ONLY pays the TAXES on goods and services.

If you buy a loaf of bread and it costs a dollar, 75 cents of that will be the cost of the bread, and 25 cents will be the Fair Tax on the bread.

The government is going to give you 25 cents to pay the tax (up to the poverty level).

The Fair Tax doesn't give you the other 75 cents you need to actually pay for the bread.

You may qualify for Welfare (the dole as Janke calls it).

WELFARE will give you the 75 cents you need to buy a loaf of bread, NOT the Fair Tax.

The FAir TAx prebate ONLY pays for the taxes you would pay on goods and services, up to the poverty level.

[Janke]

Except the Fair Tax which gives all people making less than the poverty rate a ZERO tax rate .

Still don't get it? FairTax is a flat tax, 23%, but having the gu'mmint paying a "dole" or "prebate" just counters the effect in the low-income brackets...

[Gillvane]

Still don't get it? FairTax is a flat tax, 23%, but having the gu'mmint paying a "dole" or "prebate" just counters the effect in the low-income brackets...

I know, you still don't get it.

the prebate means anyone below the poverty level pays ZERO taxes.

In fact no one pays taxes on any goods or services up to the poverty level.

You're saying the same thing.

"countering the effects on low income". Duh, because THEY DON"T PAY TAXES UNDER THE FAIR TAX!

I also don't think you get the fact that Bill Gates, a Billionaire, ALSO DOESN"T PAY TAXES UP TO THE POVERTY LEVEL under the Fair TAx.

EVERYONE gets a ZERO tax rate under the Fair Tax, up to teh poverty level.

[Gillvane]

Still don't get it? FairTax is a flat tax, 23%, but having the gu'mmint paying a "dole" or "prebate" just counters the effect in the low-income brackets...

Just for an example, let's say a soda costs 75 cents, PLUS 25 cents in tax, for a total of 1 dollar.

I give you 25 cents, and you go buy a soda for a dollar.

How much did you have to pay in taxes for the soda?

You paid 75 cents of your own money. I gave you 25 cents to pay the tax. You paid ZERO taxes, right?

Now, you say that's a dole, right?

What if you don't have 75 cents, and I give you 25 cents. How many sodas can you but with your "dole"?

Zero, right?

So, actually, it's paying the tax for you, not a "dole" right?

And if the tax is paid for you, then you have a ZERO tax rate, right?

That's the fair tax.

It would be a "dole" if the Fair Tax gave you 75 cents, and the soda costs 75 cents.

But the Fair Tax gives you 25 cents, and the soda costs a dollar.

Get it?

If you get a "dole" to buy a soda, it will have to be another 75 cents, on TOP of the 25 cents you get for the tax under the Fair Tax.

Get it?

Soda costs 1 dollar. The Tax included is 25 cents. How are you going to buy a 1 dollar soda with your 25 cent "dole"?

If you spend YOUR 75 cents for the soda, and I give you 25 cents to pay the tax, how much is your tax rate? ZERO!

[Gillvane]

Still don't get it? FairTax is a flat tax, 23%, but having the gu'mmint paying a "dole" or "prebate" just counters the effect in the low-income brackets...

Fair Tax is progressive. Anyone making below the poverty level pays ZERO taxes.

How can that not be progressive?

If you disagree, prove that a person making below the poverty level pays ANY taxes under the fair Tax.

[movielighter]

I filled up yesterday before it jumped another 10 cents overnight.

My wife is my warning siren. I just put gas in because I need it to get back and forth to work, around town, etc. So, it is like asking a kid to read the package on a fruit roll up before eating it.

I got a reminder last weekend when she was looking over my bank statement and decided to walk to work more. Puts about $40 a week back in my pocket.

$10 increase per barrel is about .10 cents at the pump, they sure as heck look for every excuse to raise it no matter what, and it sure does not go down too fast either when it should.

[Gillvane]

I filled up yesterday before it jumped another 10 cents overnight.

My wife is my warning siren. I just put gas in because I need it to get back and forth to work, around town, etc. So, it is like asking a kid to read the package on a fruit roll up before eating it.

I got a reminder last weekend when she was looking over my bank statement and decided to walk to work more. Puts about $40 a week back in my pocket.

$10 increase per barrel is about .10 cents at the pump, they sure as heck look for every excuse to raise it no matter what, and it sure does not go down too fast either when it should.

The problem is lack of a substitute for most people so gas doesn't really respond to supply and demand like other products.

If Nike charges 800 dollars for shoes, you buy Converse.

If Apples go up to 50 bucks a pound, you buy oranges instead.

If gas goes up, you buy it or you don't get to work and you can't go buy groceries.

Usually the other prices kind of lag, but you'll feel those eventually.

All the farm products are made with tractors and other large equipment. That use gas or diesel. Everything in the grocery store probably got there on a truck. That uses gas or diesel. Those prices will start to go up too.

[Janke]

The Fair Tax is a 23% inclusive tax on all goods and services.

Thus, it is not progressive.

Forget the poor and the "prebate" for a while, and consider a person with a good, middle-class income, and compare with a truly high-income person.

See how "progressive" that "FairTax" is in that scenario. A truly progressive tax should hit the really high-income with a much higher percentage than the middle-income person.

If you fail to understand that, I give up.