A possible cheap external screen idea for dof users!

[JamesLKugler]

I hope my lengthy post wont deter people from reading....

I will admit, I am a newb to the forum and a newb in general when it comes to the world of movie making and equally the world of hv and in my case hf series cameras. So I am here to bow down to the almightys of the board and ask for your help in what may be a cheap and amazing solution for a viewing screen for dof users. On the other hand it might in no way even work lol

I am new to the forum as I said so I suppose I will introduce myself here in this section as it seems fitting for my first post. My name is James and I am 21 years young. I am attending college for an art degree, just one step in the long road towards becoming a movie maker. I took video production classes in highschool and never really started to have a passion for it until just recently when I realized what just could be done with even the simplest video cameras with a little imagination.

Anyways here I am. I currently have the following equipment.

Miny35 DOF Adapter $50
I have yet to use it and after reading some info on here I am kind of regretting paying the cheap price of 50 off ebay but hey I guess thats part of the learning curve. I planned on upgrading after I learned the basics of a cheap one anyways.

Canon HF M30 Camera $125
Also off ebay. After about a month of bidding on hv20 and hv30 camcorders and not having enough money to actually win a single auction I discovered the world of tapeless flash media cameras. I have heard good and bad but they seemed to be a fairly high quality camera for the price and when I came accross one that was about half the price of what a hv20 was going for I couldnt pass it up. Maybe I will regret this purchase as well later on but just part of the learning curve right?

Canon 30-70 35mm Lense $FREE
My mom had an old canon rebel slr camera laying around collecting dust that was never used after the purchase of a newer Nikon DSLR so I ended up conning her into what equaled to me a free lense!

So all in all I have a hopefully decent DOF Setup for about 175.00 so far. My question however follows Below....

Because DOF Adapters flip the image and in turn make an external monitor or flip hack a necessity unless you want to shoot upside down the whole time, can you use a android tablet as a viewing monitor?

I mean in theory the camera has an HDMI out to view the footage on a hdtv and I also found a cheap tablet that has an HDMI connection as well. I included the link below. Heres where my theory becomes blurry to me.

Can you actually view live footage as you record through an HDMI connection or is it only for playback?

And if so whats the guarantee of the connection on this tablet of being the right way. I mean I know they usually go one way, Input or output. So in turn can I hook this tablet up to my hf m30 and view my footage live as I shoot it ?

If so I think I found a very cheap HD 7" Screen that can do more than just act as a screen. Thanks for putting up with my long post. I just like to be thorough in my explanation.

http://www.amazon.com/Amlogic-Resist...4714730&sr=1-2

Happy Hollidays! James

[kenkyusha]

First off, welcome to the forum.

In answer to your question, the likelihood of that tablet having HDMI in is low... almost infinitesimally small, in fact. We are still waiting for a tablet that features HDMI in... it'll be awesome when it arrives, but isn't here yet.

[Daniel Rutter]

Forget the tablet. Don't bother with cheap tablets.

You're certainly going the budget route for film making... but hey, I started on a Nokia N95 (camera phone in case you were wondering)... and they say it doesn't matter what equipment you use, just that you enjoy what you shoot and other people enjoy your stories (or, films).

Forget buying anything else right now. Save your money, consider upgrading your audio side of things... say a Rode Videomic or even a cheaper alternative (Azden and Audio-Technica have some budget shotguns) and a Zoom H1/Tascam DR-05. Seriously, sound is half the experience... and camera audio isn't going to cut it.

BUT, while you're saving... don't hesitate to get out there, grab some friends... and best of all, FILM SOMETHING. Just make it interesting! Stories, Films, Comedy... skip filming gardens and cats though...

[Bif]

First off, like many others these days you don't seem to really understand DOF (this is not a criticism but is all too often common). DOF is the acronym for "depth of field" which itself is a label for "zone of acceptable sharpness". The zone of acceptable sharpness you get is the result of many factors: Lens focal length, aperture used, working distance to subject, distance from subject to background elements, sensor/film size, and more.

These days it seems those new to the concept have "fixated" on the "shallow" zone of acceptable sharpness and generally ignore the rest. Every lens has DOF. Google the term "depth of field" and read some of the internet articles you find on the subject

ask for your help in what may be a cheap and amazing solution for a viewing screen for dof users. On the other hand it might in no way even work lol

Borrow one from a friend and hook it up with an HDMI cable. See if it works. But your best bet may be to save up for a Lilliput 7" monitor, search on amazon. They are not that expensive.

Miny35 DOF Adapter $50
I have yet to use it and after reading some info on here I am kind of regretting paying the cheap price of 50 off ebay but hey I guess thats part of the learning curve. I planned on upgrading after I learned the basics of a cheap one anyways.

Don't expect much of that. The market is now being flooded with people "unloading" those things and the cheaper ones have always involved more frustration than anything else. At least you didn't invest more that $50 on it. But there are much better solutions nowadays.

Canon 30-70 35mm Lense $FREE
My mom had an old canon rebel slr camera laying around collecting dust that was never used after the purchase of a newer Nikon DSLR so I ended up conning her into what equaled to me a free lense!

That is probably a 35-70 zoom. I had one for the old EOS film rebel system I used to have. The aperture is maximum f3.5 at the wide end and smaller at the tele end of it's range. You "lose light" in most 35mm adapters to start with so you have to insure you shoot in plenty of light. While that lens is decent on the older cameras and may even fit on current EOS DSLRs, it would not be my first choice for an adapter.

[C]Canon HF M30 Camera $125[/B]

If it works this was your best purchase. My advice is for now forget the adapter, you can do much if you learn this camera inside and out. It has a decent zoom range, mic input (so you can use a properly placed external mic for decent audio) and after you learn the "ins and outs" of working with depth of field you can apply that knowledge on this camcorder and get some decent looking effects with far better image quality than is even possible with that $50 adapter.

For the "shallow" DOF (selective focus) you zoom all the way to the tele end of the lens zoom range, position the camera at the right distance for the framing perspective you need on the subject, and make sure you have a lot of distance between the subject and background elements. No adapter needed and the image tones will be "clean".

If that camera works, use SanDisk Class (4) SDHC cards in it. Those are not expensive now (order from B&H to avoid getting counterfeit ones, SanDisk is the most counterfeited brand out there, especially on ebay!) and they will give very reliable performance. I have 2 HF 100's and use SanDisk 4GB and 8GB cards.

So all in all I have a hopefully decent DOF Setup for about 175.00 so far.

There's a far better solution folks are turning to these days. The video capable DSLR. You may have to save for awhile but the Canons do a tremendous job here, and as new models come out prices on the T2i are beginning to fall. B&H has it with 18-55mm "kit" lens for $629 new. Several listings in the Trade & Exchange section show up from time to time.

You can achieve fair selective focus (shallow zone of acceptable sharpness) at the 55mm end of the "kit" zoom, but the around $110 EF 50mm f1.8 lens is VERY effective at this.

Just about everything a skilled photographer can achieve in still photography can be applied to video with this camera and it is a great way to supplement what you shoot on the M30.

Happy Holidays! James

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you. Good luck.

Bruce Foreman

[Daniel Rutter]

and a Zoom H1/Tascam DR-05.

It has a decent zoom range, mic input (so you can use a properly placed external mic for decent audio)

I was unaware of this cam having mic input, so the Zoom isn't really necessary unless you cannot manually control the volume of your audio.

Although Bif's advice is helpful, I believe a lot of this to be daunting to most. I do agree with him about getting rid of the DOF adapter and just shooting with the bare camera though, as the best film makers take the equipment they have and do their best with it.

Forget DSLRs. Seriously... until you're comfortable in a film environment, don't bother with them. Stick with your little Canon and learn it inside out!

[JamesLKugler]

Wow I half expected my thread to be empty! Thank you all for the information. It has definitely opened my eyes a bit wider to the possibilities of the bare camera.

Unfortunately some of you confused me lol

So am I to understand that using that dof adapter will be more trouble than its worth? It sounds like it will be poor picture quality if I do use it and I dont want that.


Sorry I dont have time to post back to all of you, I just dont have the time. But you will definitely see me around the forum more often and I will start a new thread with lots of questions when I actually recieve my camera.

Thanks again James

[JamesLKugler]

Also figured I would share my budget job/crane I built. I built if for about ten bucks because most of the wood and hardware were just laying around. Not the best thing out there but it will get the job done! Let me know what you think!

[drapeama]

Wow I half expected my thread to be empty! [..] So am I to understand that using that dof adapter will be more trouble than its worth? It sounds like it will be poor picture quality if I do use it and I dont want that.

1) Not here. Only one user I'd see and I'd expect to have his threads empty! And you're not that user!
2) Trust me, if you never used one before, it's more job. It, indeed, produce a great feeling while you're watching the whole video, but it requires a lot more job. Personally, I like using one, but it's not something you can "run&gun" with. It requires setting up the shots, lighting them up properly. If you want to go that route too, drop that miny adapter. I can help you and give you advises on building one yourself for under 100$ (most probably under 75$ actually) but it's not an easy task. That being said, here's some nice video you can achieve using an adapter:
Static Adapter:


Spinning Adapter:


Here's what you can achieve with a DSLR:


And finally, here's what you can do with a DOF adapter, if you buy cheap and don't know what you're doing with it:
0.jpg (that one is really bad btw)
86251456_640.jpg(not so good)
63140790_640.jpg(not much better)

So, before you start, ask yourself: do a really need all these blurry backgrounds? Can I manage to achieve something that mimic a movie without the need of a DOF adapter?
Here's something I've done using the bare HV40 with a wide angle lens on it:

Not that I want to say that it's the best video ever made, but I think it has a certain look and it's been done using a simple camcorder. Not much. You simply have to use what you have and make the best out of it.

[JamesLKugler]

I tried that DOF adapter and the image was garbage. Hardly any light and very grainy. I even sold it and bought a cam35. Better but also not that great. At least with the lens options I have. It had f stop of 1.4 but still appeared to be grainy with more light but not a lot. I have sense been using the bare camera and just color correcting in post. Thats definitively the way to go.

More on topic thought we were talking about tablets and how they arent usable for external screens because there is no HDMI In. What about this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230726910577...ht_2593wt_1165

[drapeama]

I tried that DOF adapter and the image was garbage. [..] What about this?

1) Well, there's only few adapter out there that really gives a good picture quality. The Twoneil was one of them, and then there was the spinning adapters, but those cost usually just the same as the camcorder itself.
2) It could work, but I'd rather recommend you to get a lilliput monitor. I own one so I can vouch for the results. Worth the price.

[JamesLKugler]

alright I am actually thinking of upgrading from my hf m30 to a hf s100. I love the idea of it having a manual focus wheel and I hear they are a lot better in low light with that big lens. Either Way I think I will just stick to a bare camera for now.

thanks for the input I appreciate it!

[drapeama]

Either Way I think I will just stick to a bare camera for now.

Well, as I already posted:
- You can do something that has a certain film look with the bare camcorder. You simply must know the basics of lighting & framing.
- Know your camera to get the best out of it: the HVxx are known to be a bit weak in low-light but I've been able to get something very usable out of it.
- Sound is also important: try to get it from a mic placed as close as possible from your source to get the best S/N ratio.
- You can either record from the camcorder or from an external recorder, both are possible and for exporting to youtube both would give enough quality.

Let us know!