First real experience with DSLR shoot.

[azmyth]

Shot the teaser for my new film last night. It didn't go exactly as planned..

1. my camera went out yet again. Its def. going back this time. I'm tempted to send it back, have them repair. and sell it on ebay. And buy a t3i or 60d. I know they are repairing it.. but I'm just having bad luck. We filmed it on a t3i and 7d instead.

2. of the 6 fog machines I brought, only 1 worked reliably.. and then it even crapped out. On top of that my DP was taking so long to get the shot set up, that by the time the fog was looking good.. we weren't shooting...

3. This was the first time I've actually had the directors position. It was awkward, because my DP had a hard time.. just doing that. I could tell he wasn't happy about it, and he made little comments towards me the entire time when people would ask him things like "I dunno ask "the boss" and little remarks like that. I'm not sure if he was being funny or what, but it felt like he was being antagonistic.

4. I shot some of the shots myself, because he was just taking way too long. My actress was freezing to death and at some points we'd have her out there thinking he was ready to shoot, and she'd stand in the cold for 30 minutes doing nothing. I almost lost her several times due to that.

5. I'm watching the footage now, and all the shots I did look fine. You can see everything your supposed to. I had another friend of mine come down and he ran b camera, and all his stuff looks fine. Some of the stuff Doug shot looks fine, but a large chunk of it looks almost unusably dark. I was trying to look at the viewfinder when he was shooting to make sure it was looking like I wanted, and I could have sworn it didn't look that dark on the LCD.. coincidence?

6. At this point I'm uncertain about the future of the project in terms of who will be reprising their roles, or in my DP's case swapping to something else. He seemed to have a really hard time letting me direct, and seemed almost offended by the idea that someone with less experience (as far as he was concerned) was doing it. That may not have been the case, but I felt very uncomfortable at times, and now going back and looking at the footage.. its like.. the stuff that took me no time to shoot, because I didn't lollygag looks the best, while the stuff that took an hr to setup looks the worse.

I dunno if I can do anything about it in post, but I'm going to see.. we shot in neutral on both cameras.. we had to bump up to 800 iso on some shots, and as low as 200. I don't know if part of the issue was that my DP has had very little experience with DSLR's. If I can fix this dark footage, I should be ok.. the rest looks pretty good I think.

[azmyth]

note: weird.. the footage looks MUCH brighter in premiere.. vs. watching it in like windows media player.

[azmyth]

First screen cap..

[Bif]

note: weird.. the footage looks MUCH brighter in premiere.. vs. watching it in like windows media player.

I evaluate, rename, and catalog all my "take" in VLC

Bruce Foreman

[azmyth]

now I'm stuck with a choice. A new camera is obviously in order..

The t3i spoiled me last night.. there were several shots that would have been impossible to get without that swivel lcd... So, I'm def. wanting a camera with that now.

So, my options are stick with canon and hope I have better luck with a new t3i or 60d or go for something like the panasonic GH2.

[homestar_kevin]

The gh2 stuff I've seen looks great, that camera is a beast.

I've been using my t2i for over a year now, and really dig it.

I am a bit jealous of the swivel screen

[Almohada]

That's a nice screen cap. Lookin' good. Why not XH-A1? Amazing camera, I'd like to get one myself.

[azmyth]

because an XH-A1 is still more expensive that any of the camera's I've owned thus far. Out of my price range.

[Bif]

1. my camera went out yet again. Its def. going back this time. I'm tempted to send it back, have them repair. and sell it on ebay. And buy a t3i or 60d. I know they are repairing it.. but I'm just having bad luck. We filmed it on a t3i and 7d instead.

I replied to this once and it appeared but since went into a "black hole" somewhere.

Here goes again. Send that camera back and when it's returned to you test it ONLY with a brand new card that has never been near that camera before. Have you "tossed" all the other ones that were used with it? Or at least low level formatted them in computer several times?

Then sell it.

Or send it to them and tell them you require a replacement, same problem sent to them more than once and you will never be able to trust it. A "tactic" I use sometimes is to tell them if they won't replace it, then destroy it so no one ever has to deal with that problem again.

Of course they won't do that but it does get their attention. I've had two handguns replaced with new ones that way.

3. This was the first time I've actually had the directors position. It was awkward, because my DP had a hard time.. just doing that. I could tell he wasn't happy about it, and he made little comments towards me the entire time when people would ask him things like "I dunno ask "the boss" and little remarks like that. I'm not sure if he was being funny or what, but it felt like he was being antagonistic.

It's time to go your separate ways. I'd just tell him, "Look. This isn't working for either of us. Not your fault, not mine. But I just have to go this one myself to see what I can do."

He will subconsciously fight you every step of the way. Nothing willful or malicious, but he just cannot let go of what he thinks his role should be. But he's no longer really helping you.

He is now a handicap.

5. I'm watching the footage now, and all the shots I did look fine. You can see everything your supposed to. I had another friend of mine come down and he ran b camera, and all his stuff looks fine. Some of the stuff Doug shot looks fine, but a large chunk of it looks almost unusably dark. I was trying to look at the viewfinder when he was shooting to make sure it was looking like I wanted, and I could have sworn it didn't look that dark on the LCD.. coincidence?

No, that's the effect of our eyes adjusting to the lighting environment. Even with a viewfinder loupe visual judgement gets altered.

I learned this on a project where the same thing happened. "Takes" that looked normal on the LCD at night turned out too dark when I got them in the computer and NLE. I use VLC to evaluate and catalog scenes before editing.

You may have to adjust LCD brightness. Now, Canon gives us a good tool for this. Snap a still, go to the LCD brightness menu and that still shows up with a gray scale on the right of the still. Adjust LCD brightness until you can see every step on the gray scale from pure white to pure black and at the same time see enough detail in the still image. You can do a still image in normal daylight and leave it on the card for this, the last one shot will show when you go to LCD brightness.

If you can see all gray scale steps and see normal detail on the image, this LCD brightness setting will work well AT THAT LOCATION and IN THAT LIGHTING ENVIRONMENT!

LCD viewfinder loupe is essential for this, and don't forget to put LCD brightness back to midscale or wherever is normal for your use in normal daylight and normally lit interiors.

The same works in reverse in bright daylight. Our eyes tend to adapt to the lighting environment we are in and this CAN affect our visual judgement.

This has been working well for me with my 7D, 60D, and T3i. If you want the article I wrote on Systematic Use Of Manual Settings With Canon DSLR's send me a PM with your email address and I'll get it to you.

I dunno if I can do anything about it in post, but I'm going to see.. we shot in neutral on both cameras.. we had to bump up to 800 iso on some shots, and as low as 200. I don't know if part of the issue was that my DP has had very little experience with DSLR's. If I can fix this dark footage, I should be ok.. the rest looks pretty good I think.

When it happened to me, trying to correct it in post didn't help. Looked bad, picked up noise.

Reshoot.

Bruce Foreman

[Bif]

now I'm stuck with a choice. A new camera is obviously in order..

The t3i spoiled me last night.. there were several shots that would have been impossible to get without that swivel lcd... So, I'm def. wanting a camera with that now.

So, my options are stick with canon and hope I have better luck with a new t3i or 60d or go for something like the panasonic GH2.

For all of what you are trying to do I would recommend the 60D. You will get the intermediate ISO's and manual audio level control without having to be tempted to try modified firmware, also what feels like a bit more solid construction. Watch sales, I got mine (body only) for $888 from Amazon (also had about $125 credit with them so that was a "no brainer" even though at the time B&H had for close to the same price)

B&H has it for $899 body only thru Jan 7th right now. If you do sell the T2i, you can pick up one of those "kit" 18-55mm lenses by watching these for sale forums, I got one to use as an extra for $70. It'll get you by until you can go for lenses you want to use.

The swivel LCD on both 60D and T3i seems to have mostly solved the overheating problem noted with the 7D and T2i.

With the swiveling LCD the best viewfinder loupe solution I've found is the Hoodman Cine Pro Kit with loupe, 3x eyepiece, and the crane. That crane mounts and dismounts from the camera shoe in very few seconds, when the LCD is swiveled out I use a simple $10 hood I found on amazon.

Just my thoughts.

Bruce Foreman

[azmyth]

I'm trying to decide on the t3i, 60d, or even the GH2.. been hearing amazing things about it lately.. of course I'll be using an T3i too, for this new film. Not sure it would be smart to get a non canon camera, if I was planning to use a t3i as a 2nd camera.. not sure how well it would mix.

[Bif]

I've seen complaints that as great as the GH2 does, you don't have good WYSIWYG on the LCD, color looks different from what you see. I'm able to "nail" exposure and image density on the Canon's

Bruce Foreman

[azmyth]

Thats a big thing. For, after playing with the T3i this weekend.. I cannot live without that swivel.. It saved me so many times last night. I used the crap out of it.

[drapeama]

The gh2 stuff I've seen looks great, that camera is a beast.
I've been using my t2i for over a year now, and really dig it.
I am a bit jealous of the swivel screen

1) Any camera properlly used can gives results like described.
2) I'm lovin' mine as well. I've shot great stuff using it.
3) Not particulary, maybe because I didn't used one yet. I'm fine with my Lilliput monitor so far. Not the best and convenient solution, but it works well.

I'm trying to decide on the t3i, 60d, or even the GH2.. been hearing amazing things about it lately.. [..] if I was planning to use a t3i as a 2nd camera.. not sure how well it would mix.

1) I've been pleased with the T2i so far, so I'd opt for the T3i, or maybe the 60D depending on your budget. The 60D features some interesting functions, same can be added on the T2i, with Magic Latern firmware installed. Your call.
2) Well, I've been able to "match" both HDV and DSLR footage. You simply have to set the cameras settings accordingly but you can't really know how good both will match: different lenses, sensors, profiles...so. To be safe, the 60D would be my first choice!

[Daniel Rutter]

Ditch your DP... it's obvious he'll drag you down. If you keep him on, you will definitely not get what you want out of your film. Friendship or not, he's only going to ruin the experience for you.

One thing I've learned during shooting short films is that you CANNOT have people around you that distract you or make you feel you can't get what you need/want. You need people to know who's running the show, and this guy sure as hell knows... but is jealous about it.

On another note, I wish I was living in the states... I'd happily offer myself to be your DP. Fly me over eh? I'll do it no worries

[azmyth]

Ditch your DP... it's obvious he'll drag you down. If you keep him on, you will definitely not get what you want out of your film. Friendship or not, he's only going to ruin the experience for you.

One thing I've learned during shooting short films is that you CANNOT have people around you that distract you or make you feel you can't get what you need/want. You need people to know who's running the show, and this guy sure as hell knows... but is jealous about it.

On another note, I wish I was living in the states... I'd happily offer myself to be your DP. Fly me over eh? I'll do it no worries

lol awesome. Let me just see if thats in the budget.

The good news is, when I asked him about DPing this time.. I literally told him I'd be hiring him. So, its not a friendship thing at all this go round. I don't want to ruin our friendship over creative differences.

I asked him today how he thought the shoot went, and that I felt some tension coming from him and he more or less chalked everything up to being unprepared, and rushing, and only having 2 lenses, and his lack of knowledge with DSLR's, which was fine. I like him, and he knows what he's doing. But I think our methods are clashing this go round, because I want this movie to have a rough around the edges feel. He's more traditional tripoed shots.. etc..

[Dr. Benway]

I don't want to ruin our friendship over creative differences.

Do what you need to, azmyth. It's up to his self-reliance and confidence to handle any perceived rejection. The industry itself is ruthless; you either have the skills or don't, or people like you or they don't. If you are skilled and personable you'll get work.

[lobstaman]

I recently purchased a 60D when I was originally planning for a T3i and I'm very very happy with it. It cost Little more but the extra is well worth it!

[azmyth]

Yeah, because I've already been learning mostly on canon cameras.. I sort of want to stay with Canon. I dunno that a GH2 would be any better at this point.

[Bif]

Yeah, because I've already been learning mostly on canon cameras.. I sort of want to stay with Canon. I dunno that a GH2 would be any better at this point.

The GH2 is getting some "rave" reviews, especially the "hack" that makes some really high ISO's work.

My biggest misgiving would be bringing another camera with a possible different "color personality" into the mix. That could probably be handled but I'd still avoid it if I could.

I have 3 Canon's and they all seem to be very close to the same rendition. I've run into no need to adjust/match color between them. I'm not that much of a "brand snob" and have actually been looking at the GH2 as an "extra" camera. But not having the funds to "collect" cameras my ultimate decision was to stay with Canon for now.

Things I could not let go of easily are having both NTSC and PAL in the same camera. Even though I don't really need it at this point I appreciate having the flexibility of one camera that works with the main standards anywhere in the world.

Methods I've worked out for accurately "nailing" exposure and sometimes "dialing in" a specific exposure look using the LCD. The Canon setup allowing full independent setting of all exposure parameters with no "nonsense" to "work around" limitations of some other brands.

You haven't indicated whether or not you want the article I wrote covering the above. I've posted it a couple of times so you may have seen it.

Good luck with your dilemmas.

Bruce Foreman

[krewcial]

everything Bif said is on point, as usual ;-)
get rid of the DP and sounds like you need someone on set to make things run smooth (to avoid situations where your actors are ready and your DP isn't). that simply isn't your job as a director.

[drapeama]

It didn't go exactly as planned..

1. [..] We filmed it on a t3i and 7d instead.

2. [..] On top of that my DP was taking so long to get the shot set up, that by the time the fog was looking good.. we weren't shooting...

4. I shot some of the shots myself, because he was just taking way too long. My actress was freezing to death and at some points we'd have her out there thinking he was ready to shoot, and she'd stand in the cold for 30 minutes doing nothing. I almost lost her several times due to that.

5. I'm watching the footage now, and all the shots I did look fine. You can see everything your supposed to. I had another friend of mine come down and he ran b camera, and all his stuff looks fine. Some of the stuff Doug shot looks fine, but a large chunk of it looks almost unusably dark. I was trying to look at the viewfinder when he was shooting to make sure it was looking like I wanted, and I could have sworn it didn't look that dark on the LCD.. coincidence?

1) You can't really plan exactly, but you always have a good idea though.
2) Using that equipment in low-light, you should have great picture quality and decent footage. From what I can tell with my T2i, properlly used it'll produce gold!
3) Well, he might be experienced, but he can be not so much efficient.
4) If what you've done was looking good and what he did wasn't, then the problem might have been him itself. In this particular case, your actors are far more important than what he can bring to this production. Find someone else that will follow your insctuctions, guide him, set the camera's settings for him if it's needed, do some DP work if you're not sure, but don't let him scrap your footage: you'll have to shoot it again anyway. Better having it done properlly the first time, for you AND your actors.
5) Did you setup the settings for him, or he was "capable" of doing it himself? If you did, then there's absolutely no choice: find someone else. YOU're the director, HE's working FOR you. He can't take creative decision. You can both talk and decide together on what's the best, but you're the one that has the final word on it.

note: weird.. the footage looks MUCH brighter in premiere.. vs. watching it in like windows media player.

Might simply be the output range on windows media, set to 0-255 instead of 16-235. I'm using MediaPlayer Classic and last time I had some trouble (with the technicolor comparison video), that was the problem. Set it to 16-235 and it should be the same as in Premiere.

First screen cap..

If YOU shot that, then just don't change your camera. That still is very nice! (It's been shot on which one?)

now I'm stuck with a choice. A new camera is obviously in order...[...] So, my options are stick with canon and hope I have better luck with a new t3i or 60d or go for something like the panasonic GH2.

1) Having to buy another camera, I'd stick with the same brand for "compliancy" and ease of use: being used to one, the other shouldn't be much different.
2) If you started using Canon cameras, then I'd stick on that route. I wouldn't mix many cameras, at least not if you plan to use them for the "same" scene. Both can look different and in that case, it could be distracting and hard to "match" in post. Avoid some trouble and stick with the same brand.

Ditch your DP... it's obvious he'll drag you down.

Good point, I wouldn't have said better. He's like the fifth wheel on your ride now...unless he'd changes his behavior, there's no other choice.

[azmyth]

Drape here's some other caps..

My DP shot the darker shots of her, the one at the door, and the one of her looking over her shoulder with the blurred background. I had to brighten them up some just to be able to post them.
I shot the first one, the second one, the wounded leg (on a slider), and I'm not sure who shot the last 3.. it could have been him, me or my friend who came with a 7d.

[drapeama]

Drape here's some other caps..

My DP shot the darker shots of her, the one at the door, and the one of her looking over her shoulder with the blurred background. I had to brighten them up some just to be able to post them.
I shot the first one, the second one, the wounded leg (on a slider), and I'm not sure who shot the last 3.. it could have been him, me or my friend who came with a 7d.

1) Sweet! (both the pics and the actress! )
2) I can clearly see the difference. At first I saw the difference, but I thought it wasn't that bad, until I read that you "brighten" them up just to post them here...then...it's another story...He really did such a bad job.
3) They're well lit, pretty much all of them, except the ones your DP did for sure. I'd like to watch that 'trailer' when you'll get a rough version of it. That slider shot for the wounded leg seems very well done with the focus being on the first leg only.

The lighting overall seems very well done: gives you room to adjust the whole picture in post by lowering the highlights a bit and maybe slightly adjusting the gama/curves/levels. But it's way more better than the very first screen I've seen for Exit 101: shot with the JAG35...
Keep it up Joseph!

Edit: one thing I forgot, you've used some Kinos lights or?

[azmyth]

all work lights my friend. ALL work lights.
we used ONE very small CFL for close ups on the face.. gelled the lights blue with some cheap translucent blue wrapping paper about 5 feet away from the lights. It was about 32 degrees so, the heat wasn't bad.

also.. i'm not saying everything he shot was bad, he got some good shots too.. but i'm not sure how those turned out so dark. I shot the stuff I did in almost HALF the time it took him.