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Thread: Blackmagic Hyperdeck brings cheap HD recording to the HV20/30/40?

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    Valued Member Karel Bata's Avatar
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    Talking Blackmagic Hyperdeck brings cheap HD recording to the HV20/30/40?

    What do you guys think?



    http://www.btlnews.com/crafts/camera...rdeck-shuttle/

    What else would we need to make this work?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karel Bata View Post
    What else would we need to make this work?
    SSD drives and an HDMI cable?

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    Valued Member Karel Bata's Avatar
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    Quite a bit more I suspect. A power supply for starters.

    They would have to be up-market drives to handle the bandwidth. Any thoughts?

    Would be nice to have some way of playing back, but I guess you could do that by immediately transferring to a laptop...

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    ...formerly known as 'drapeama' Marc-Alexandre Drapeau's Avatar
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    I find tht funny every time: sure it's nice to be able to record 10bit fully uncompressed video from an HVxx....but when you pay a camcorder ~1000$, what do you expect from it?
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

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    Moderator Erik Bien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karel Bata View Post
    Would be nice to have some way of playing back
    In that case, maybe you'd prefer the Atomos Ninja.

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    A little more on the BMD Intensity Shuttle here:

    http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?13443

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karel Bata View Post
    Quite a bit more I suspect. A power supply for starters.
    I thought they came with a power supply. Notice the power-in? Weird if in this day and age a manufacturer doesn't supply an adapter.

    http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...tle/techspecs/
    Last edited by Dr. Benway; 2011 October 24th at 20:18.

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    Infallible (& formerly known as Krute) Jim E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Benway View Post
    I thought they came with a power supply. Notice the power-in? Weird if in this day and age a manufacturer doesn't supply an adapter.

    http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...tle/techspecs/
    They have an internal rechargeable battery, but they do come with a 12V adapter as well, Doc.

    One thing to be aware of, although most here probably know it, is that SSDs rarely write data as fast as the makers claim. So the Shuttle won't record smooth video on smaller SSDs. I'm using a 60Gb SSD, and even five seconds of footage will hesitate. I've run the test on my comp and it should be able to play 10 bit uncompressed. But the files aren't right to start with, I suspect. I doubt that the Shuttle itself is at fault. I'm gonna need a bigger Drive....

    .

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    Valued Member Karel Bata's Avatar
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    However, if we assume that a more workable option will be available within a couple of years, it's rather nice to see new life (and credibility) breathed into my ol' HV20. Not for the bin yet...

    And my bad: "Rechargeable built in lithium-ion polymer battery" Missed that

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    I'm thinking the Sound Devices Pix 220 is the one the get. Full uncompressed is way overkill on the HV. ProRes or Avid formats, and XLR audio that Sound Devices are famous for, built like a tank, pull down removal... And yes the recorder is more than the camera, but you can always move the recorder to the next camera.

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    Looks nice.

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    I also tried to save uncompressed video to an SSD (CSZ agility 3, 120 Gb) but found out that the specs are really over reporting the write speed for video. I'm getting less than 100 Mb/sec instead of the 500Mb/sec. which is not enough for uncompressed video. I'm doing better with an esata external harddrive at 125 Mb/sec.

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    It is a tricky device (did look into it), which is pretty common in the world of film and video. You need to have a fast and large SSD (if you wish to mimic the running time in a HVx) as it stores data uncompressed (I don't know what vince encounters, possibly there is some compression possible now?). And although it does have battery inside, it lasts about an hour. So in the end the price will probably run towards 700 dollars or so. In that case one seriously has to consider the Ninja, which stores in ProRes (I won't archive uncompressed anyway) with the added feature of playback and the more convenient battery setup (dual).
    However, I had 'issues' to use a Ninja for my HV20. You could also get yourself a flash based camera for that or half the price more (yes I know I've inflated the price twice now). If you are in the thousand dollar (or more) range you typically get more (manual) control over the footage. So although I am a huge fan of squeezing the max out of the HVx, if you are not adding that much value (yes HDMI somewhat better) but in an inefficient manner, you could have had more.

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    Previously geeking out over 2/3" Scarlet. Scarlet-X...not so much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince View Post
    I also tried to save uncompressed video to an SSD (CSZ agility 3, 120 Gb) but found out that the specs are really over reporting the write speed for video. I'm getting less than 100 Mb/sec instead of the 500Mb/sec. which is not enough for uncompressed video. I'm doing better with an esata external harddrive at 125 Mb/sec.
    Mmm, are you sure you're not mixing up bits (b) and Bytes (B)?

    Hard drives generally do around 100MB / sec, that's 100 megaBytes. If your SSD drive's specced rate is 500mb/s (small b means it's in megabits, not megaBytes), they only promise around 62.5 MB/sec (in megaBytes)...
    *Balanced audio hack* *Variable ND filters* *HV20 vs. Film* "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." (George Orwell: Animal Farm)

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    Argh, did read that one correct, compression...ah well..

    Anyway, Halsu is right about the B vs. b situation, but I think you are another victim of the advertised speed. (It's OCZ btw.) You are storing video, as a result you have to check the write statistics for 'random data' in reviews. After all, the data can't be compressed by the Sandforce controller. The write speed you can get won't surpass the 240MB/sec for sure as that's the top of the 240GB version and smaller ones are slower. The 500MB/sec is possible is you store data which can be compressed best by the controller.

    As for the speed you do get, I'm not sure what exactly happens in the device. There a lot of reasons a drive might perform not as good as its supposed to. In general an SSD can be slow if it's not connected to the right port, not trimmed, in IDE mode, not alligned, some of these are not relevant in your case, but for example I'm not sure whether the garbage collection is working properly with this device.
    Last edited by BarteS; 2011 November 8th at 07:32.

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    Moderator Erik Bien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarteS View Post
    I had 'issues' to use a Ninja for my HV20.
    Curious what they were; I haven't used it myself, but a buddy bought one to use with his XH-A1 and several HV20s, and so far speaks highly of it.

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    The reason I did put 'issues' between brackets is not because I did use it and had issues, but couldn't find the right word to describe I wouldn't. I had 'issues' to sell it to my self. It's simply because there are other investments that bring me more. Don't get me wrong, the playback is nice, the compression is nice, the quality is and the recording time is too. It's simply that the latter is somewhat interesting one to me (though the most interesting one is to be able to avoid tape), the quality is marginally better and the other two aspects are not that interesting to me. In that case I'd rather invest in a device which allows me to shoot better (in terms of control). But if you have multiple tape devices, including some of the (still) more expensive ones, it could be slightly different as you might not want to switch all. Besides, if that buddy is a (semi)pro and does have to work with other people to shoot an event/scene, the other features become more interesting too I'd say.

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    Although I purchased the BMD Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 for other reasons, I pulled out my trusty old HV30 and it works great with the Shuttle 2 over HDMI. At present, the Hyperdeck series will record in three formats:


    1. Avid's DNxHD codec in an MXF wrapper, which is pretty much only useful for import into Avid software. You can buy an importer from Calibrated{Q} which allows import into other NLEs.
    2. Uncompressed MOV. Beautiful and BIG (1.3 Gb/s bitrate). This will fill the SSD in no time flat, plus the files are unwieldy to edit. This option is probably only useful for green screening, etc.
    3. DNxHD in a MOV wrapper. This allows import into Premiere Pro CS5.5 (not 5.0x) and Vegas Pro (I've only tested version 11), as long as you have the free Avid Code Pack LE 2.3.7 installed.

    There are rumors of BMD adding additional codecs via a firmware update. The two codecs mentioned most frequently are Apple ProRes and Cineform.

    Now, what are the drawbacks? It seems extravagant to spend $300+ US for the Shuttle 2 and then another couple hundred for an SSD, given the benefit you get with an HV30. True, you get full 1920x1080 and 4:2:2, but the HV30 doesn't output true 10 bit color over HDMI, as I recall, so you won't get that feature. You can't control the Shuttle 2 over HDMI, so you need to just use the controls on the Shuttle 2. But if you hate tape and want full HD, this is a way to upgrade your HVx0. It might also be worth it with Canon's consumer line of AVCHD cams also, if you don't particularly like the h264 compression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karel Bata View Post
    And my bad: "Rechargeable built in lithium-ion polymer battery" Missed that
    I wonder if "built in" means ... when the battery dies it needs to go back to the factory for a new one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_Karl View Post
    I wonder if "built in" means ... when the battery dies it needs to go back to the factory for a new one.
    Since I haven't taken mine apart (yet, ), I'd say that most people will eventually have to do that. But with the optional mounting plate, you could mount an compliant external battery pack to the unit to forestall the inevitable. The Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 seems to only slowly draw down the battery (at least at room temperature), probably because SSDs don't need a lot of juice.

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    Valued Member Karel Bata's Avatar
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    Guess what? They've shoved a sensor on the hyperdeck, added a touchscreen monitor, a chunk of well thought out software, a few ports, thrown in DaVinci Resolve, and called it the Blackmagic Cinema Camera https://bitly.com/BLCCam!

    $3,000. Very impressive

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    I see yet another place for my custom BEC Tekkeon MP battery caddy
    I do not see any mounting bushings on this Hyperdeck Shuttle. Maybe time to design a dedicated caddy for it?
    I wrote a nice piece on DVXUser about the Blackmagic design 2.5K. My only complaint at this stage is the bundling of Davinci Resolve as this is pure marketing.
    When a 'manufacturer' includes $2.00 of software (intangible), convinces customers that it's a steal at $1,500 (compared to the MSRP of the standalone) and the bundle comes in at $3,000... I smell Microsoft behavior all over it. But it's beta launch so what do I care? I never pay for betas.

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