foley peak levels?

[azmyth]

What level should foley sounds peak at?

[HueyNRolf]

You have to use your judgement. Obviously a gunshot needs to be louder than a drink being poured. Like a good picture a good soundtrack should have a focus; if there's speech parts, then they should be the focus for the viewer. If other aspects like score, foley, ambience competes with the primary, then it will be distracting.

Start with whatever needs to stand out and adjust the gain below 0db (maybe -2 or -3 db), then mix in your other sounds in so they compliment the primary. Less is usually more. I often test things like ambience on a guinea pig. If they notice it, then it's probably too loud.

[HueyNRolf]

You have to use your judgement. Obviously a gunshot needs to be louder than a drink being poured. Like a good picture a good soundtrack should have a focus; if there's speech parts, then they should be the focus for the viewer. If other aspects like score, foley, ambience competes with the primary, then it will be distracting.

Start with whatever needs to stand out and adjust the gain below 0db (maybe -2 or -3 db), then mix in your other sounds in so they compliment the primary. Less is usually more. I often test things like ambience on a guinea pig. If they notice it, then it's probably too loud.

[Almohada]

There's no limit. You need to mix it properly... some sounds should be louder than others... you can't set a limit on these things. Do your dialogue then get all the sfx elements in place on the timeline then do your mix. Obviously there is a lot more to it than just that but you have to mix it at some point and level it

[cgbier]

Yes, there is a limit. In digital it is -0 dB at the most maximum. Standard is -6 for average peak.

[azmyth]

i guess i may have to redo all these then. they sounded fine in my phones, but when i got them on the timeline i can't hear most of them at all unless i boost the gain to -12 or higher.

[HueyNRolf]

i guess i may have to redo all these then. they sounded fine in my phones, but when i got them on the timeline i can't hear most of them at all unless i boost the gain to -12 or higher.

I don't think that -12db is too much. How does the mix sound?

[Almohada]

He's asking about the peak levels... of FOLEY.... there's no limit... not every sound effect is going to be under say -10. Some will be louder. It depends on what you're mixing

[Janke]

Do it by ear! KISS principle...

[azmyth]

as to not make a new thread..

I went through and made a spreadsheet of every scene, and listed every sound effect I thought we needed.. but now that I'm actually recording them.. I'm finding that maybe some of these aren't "needed". How do you know what you need and what you don't?

Like for example..

a classroom scene. You see several shots of a character sketching on a pad. Other people around him are also writing or doodling. I had originally recorded the pencil sounds, and my wife said that it sounded "fake" because you wouldn't be able to hear those noises unless you were almost sitting in the desk with him.

I'm at another place now, where a girl comes out of her front door (this is in a wide/medium shot) and opens a pack of cigarettes and lights up. I originally had listed to record sounds of her rustling with the package when she opens it, but would you really hear that?

[Khaver]

A great foley artist will record sound for just about everything he sees the actors doing (footsteps, clothes rustling, papers rustling, pencil noise, etc). It's up to the sound mixer and director to decide what needs to stay. Like Janke said, do it by ear. Add the sounds at a natural level and watch the scene using speakers, not headphones. Do the same without the sound. Which one seems more natural? This is mostly when you're doing ADR or a scene where you knew you would be adding sound effects. If you're using the location audio you probably don't need to add anything since if the mic didn't pick it up the audience won't miss it.

[azmyth]

yeah i'm more or less using location audio when it sounds good, and replacing anything else that doesn't. In the scene with the girl, because the director is giving her direction I had to take all the sound out.. so replacing it all.

[Khaver]

Try it in real life. Stand back from a front door the approx. distance of the clip and have someone come out the door, take out the pack, remove a cigarette and light it. What do you hear? Door knob turning? Door opening? Footsteps? Pack rumpling? Lighter or match lighting? If you can't hear anything then all you need is outdoor ambient sound, or add them so they are barely audible, almost below the ambient sound.

[azmyth]

one thing that bugs me though is that movies are notorious for having sound effects for things that realistically either wouldn't sound like that, or you wouldn't be able to hear at all.

[Khaver]

Movies are a creation of the director, it doesn't have to be realistic. It's all what you and your partner want. If the scene looks and sounds good to you without the SFX, leave them out. You might get an objective pair of eyes and ears to preview the scene and see what they have to say.

Sound mixing is an art in itself. That's why most directors have someone else do it. You don't have that luxury so you should just make it sound as natural as possible to your own ears, and again, don't rely on mixing using headphones. Try to use a good set of speakers in a fairly dead room.

[drapeama]

Do it by ear!

I think it's the best option, as you can't really mix something without monitoring the mix, otherwise you could only use the level meters and it would work.

...Add the sounds at a natural level and watch the scene using speakers, not headphones.

Agree. Mix it to something that sounds "natural" to you, according to the scene. I may not be the best to give advices for that, but in the contest #24, for the beach scene, I mainly used sound I've recorded after, in separate tracks:
- Birds
- Wind
- Water
- Footsteps on rock/sand/grass
- door closing
- cars passing by

Again, I'm not an expert, but I think it gave a good mix in the final result. The best is to add all the sounds that may be present originaly "on-location" and lower the volume of each of them, so they're not catching viewer's attention like it's been voluntary added. I think if there's a lot of information in the soundtrack, but nothing "pop-up" more than another sound, then it's a good mix that sounds natural.
There's several aspects like that described in the movie reviews at bluray.com. Might be helpfull to check, sometimes it can gives some interesting ideas.

[azmyth]

what would make a good nasty "bite" sound effect?

[Dr. Benway]

what would make a good nasty "bite" sound effect?

Amplified, EQ'd and layered fresh apple and water cracker crunch?

[azmyth]

I found something even better..

one of those giant juicy dill pickles.. we just happen to have a big jar of em.. yes this sounds digusting.

[drapeama]

one of those giant juicy dill pickles.. we just happen to have a big jar of em.. yes this sounds digusting.

I must admit that "matched" with the zombies on the screen, it's probably disgusting as wish!

If you're interested, rant (or buy, it's never a bad investment) Terminator 2 on bluray (Or X-Treme DVD edition) and check the bonus, there's a lot of genius and clever idea in there: they used a sardine can opening sound, recorded with a mic within a condom, and then they reversed the sound, and that's how it sounds when the T-1000 morphs. Who could have thought that, uh?

[azmyth]

Here's another question for you guys.

I know this is probably a judgement call too.. but in some scenes it seems like I don't need any "ambience" other than what was recorded on set. If I try to add it, it doesn't sound "natural" to me. Like, someone getting out of bed.. and I added some "morning ambience" with birds and stuff.. and it sounded fake.. Other places have good ambience too, but you can hear sort of where I've tried to "fade" the dialog so the cuts aren't harsh.

[Khaver]

Here's another question for you guys.

I know this is probably a judgement call too.. but in some scenes it seems like I don't need any "ambience" other than what was recorded on set. If I try to add it, it doesn't sound "natural" to me. Like, someone getting out of bed.. and I added some "morning ambience" with birds and stuff.. and it sounded fake.. Other places have good ambience too, but you can hear sort of where I've tried to "fade" the dialog so the cuts aren't harsh.

What you might need to do is gate your dialog track to get rid of the room tone between words and add back in a room tone loop underneath.

[drapeama]

What you might need to do is gate your dialog track to get rid of the room tone between words and add back in a room tone loop underneath.

That way you can "control" the room tone and it doesn't sound like an artificial dialog. Good point Khaver.

[Bertzie]

For ambient sounds, there's really no need to add any, unless you're doing so specifically for emphasis on the action.

[Dr. Benway]

I wish I had a wall-sized editing touch screen like in Minority Report. It would make it more organic, more kinaesthetic. I'd like to see my projects in their entirety rather than scrolling, and I'd like to be able to draw on them with a stylus to control peaks and speeds and flips and colour...