The Kinefinity Kineraw s35 SPAM thread - China's $8,000 SPAM!

[Janke]

2/3" megapixel lens

What's that? I've never heard of a lens having megapixels...

Oh, I see... it's just a brand name...

[Dan Hudgins]

What's that? I've never heard of a lens having megapixels...

Oh, I see... it's just a brand name...

megapixel lenses are also know as 'Factory Automation' or 'FA' lenses, as well as 'MP' lenses meaning that they are designed to resolve a spot size small enough to match the pixel size of sensors with 1 megapixel or more sensors.

For the KineRAW-S8p (tm) you generally want 1/2" sensor format lenses rated for 3MP or 2/3" lenses rated for 5MP or more.

Megapixel lenses are used for machine vision systems and have less distortion and better resolution in general than video lenses or even some cine lenses of the film era maybe.

==

I made some new photos of the KineRAW-S8p (tm) with different shooting configurations, with anamorphic lens and matte box, with follow focus gear on 12.5mm f/1.4 Fujinon 5MP lens and matte box with Mitchell follow focus, and using a 9.5-57mm f/1.6 reflex zoom that has optical view finder.

The color on the viewfinder looks better than how it shows up in the photos, its hard to take a photo of the LCD monitor and get the light on the subject the same contrast ratio and color balance, but to the eye the monitor image show more saturation and tonal range.

About when you can purchase one, email Kinefinity.com (sm) and tell them you have a serious interest unless they change the price etc. The more people that tell them they are interested the more they know about the interest.

The main question with the S8 is should they put the current design into limited production, or should they have more delays to make improvements?

The core of the camera has been working for more than a year, and they fixed some issues through firmware revisions, so its usable now I think for real filmmaking, a few minor changes would be good but it could be produced as is so far for people that are going to use it as intended. The proposed revisions would widen the market, but also maybe delay things for some time and possible inch the price up a bit?

I was all for producing the PREVIOUS version that had a sheet metal case, in place of the nice machined one this model has, so I think they could do both but they have their own ideas...

They are finishing up the KineRAW-S35 (tm) second prototype now, I have gotten some calibration DNG back and the ISO and tonal range and color look good, there are some issues with the OLPF selection.

Anyway, here are some photos, I hope to start shooting some hand held shots with the KineRAW-S8p (tm) soon, I purchased a 3.5mm f/2.4 Kowa megapixel HR lens, on the videwfinder it looks usable, I will have to shoot some tests because at 1920 wide on Vimeo its a challenge to be flawless, watch out for other camera makers only showing 1280x720 videos as there is a big leap from 1280 wide to 1920 wide in terms of de-Bayer artifacts showing up. I have some work to do on my up scaling features in my de-Bayer program, but if you stand back a 'safe distance' or transfer to 35mm print, they aren't as noticeable as putting ones noise on the 2K computer monitor etc.

[Gillvane]

The 4k market is starting to get lots of new entries. Is this camera going to be able to keep up with the competition by the time it releases?


"The company announced a new 4K videocamera today with interchangeable lenses, super-slow-motion options, and a Super 35mm-sized image sensor. Initially it'll shoot only conventional 1080p video, Sony said, but it's "4K-ready," meaning that with a planned firmware update it'll also be able to produce video imagery about 4,000 pixels wide.

Other high-end features include built-in 2-, 4-, and 6-stop neutral density filters, which can block light so videographers can shoot with wide apertures and therefore blurred-out backgrounds, and 3G-SDI output, which has enough capacity for high-end video formats, Sony said. The output will be able to keep up with 4K raw video, Sony said.

The videocamera (called the NEX-FS700U in the United States and the NEX-FS700E in Europe) is scheduled to ship in June for less than $10,000, including a 18-200mm lens. "

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57...camera-prices/

[Dan Hudgins]

There is some sample footage from the KineRAW-S35 (tm) second prototype in field testing in China now, its free to download the MOV and Cineform (tm) clips as well as the matching 3D-LUT for monitoring and editing with.

Sample MOV and Cineform ™ along with matching 3D-LUT are free to download at links in this posting, as are photos of the KineRAW-S35 ™ second prototype in field testing in China now,

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...post1986151837

Quote: [There are 720p H.264 mov for downloading:
http://115.com/file/e7jl12ad#final-4...Time-H.264.rar

There are some Cineform RAW footages for downloading:
Clip1: http://115.com/file/c2exeutq#clip1.rar
Clip2: http://115.com/file/bemsmxgt#clip2.rar
Clip3: http://115.com/file/dpk7t4vt#clip3.rar

The Cineform (tm) player is here,

http://cineform.com/gopro-cineform-decoder

Quote: [Here are links for Low-Contrast Rec709 LUT.

1. daylight-160.look: http://115.com/file/c2elxws7#daylight-160.look
2. daylight-160.cube: http://115.com/file/dpkn5su4#daylight-160.cube

Speedgrade NX, Firstlight can use .look file, while Da Vinci Resolve uses .cube file. People can use the LUT as monitoring LUT, but also use it as a starting point of grading .]

Click on the green buttons in on the linked to pages at 115.com to download the files, use the free program 7-Zip (tm) to unzip the rar files.

Feel free to email Kinefinity.com (sm) if you have any questions on how to use those 3D-LUT or the workflow they used in editing the MOV file.

KineRAW-S35_shooting_first_demo_3.JPG

KineRAW-S35_shooting_first_demo_2.JPG

KineRAW-S35_shooting_first_demo_1.JPG

[Dan Hudgins]

Here are some photos of the re-designed KineRAW-S35 (tm) camera, and links to some more KineRAW-S8p (tm) videos on Vimeo.

http://vimeo.com/44417714

http://vimeo.com/44424450


The E1 video was shot 1920x1440 oversample for black and white then reduced to 1440x1080 for stamp box. The F1 video compares the same subject with shooting modes 1920x1440, 2228x1252, 2400x1200, and 2592x1104 in color.

KineRAW-S35_monitor_image_6954.jpgKineRAW-S35_with_Mitchell_follow_focus_OCT-19_150mm_Konvas_matte_box_B.JPGKineRAW-S35_with_Mitchell_follow_focus_OCT-19_150mm_Konvas_matte_box_C.JPGKineRAW-S35_2K_SN_ratio_at_EI_160_half_size.jpg

[Ian-T]

Now THAT'S what a camera should look like.

[Dr. Benway]

Now THAT'S what a camera should look like.

Like this you mean?

5356144467_03867dd6c7.jpeg

[Ian-T]

Like this you mean?

5356144467_03867dd6c7.jpeg

Ha...that looks more like some type of detonator.

[Janke]

--- for detonating ghosts, actually...

[Dan Hudgins]

Kinefinity.com (tm) asked me to pass on some links to test footage recorded Cineform (tm) wavelet compressed (without H.264 like block artifacts),

Quote:[ Here are more Cineform RAW clips shot on KineRAW-S35; we would like to
share with you.

http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-011-A1.mov
http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-099-A1.mov
http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-112-A1.mov
http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-121-A1.mov
http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-023-A1.mov
http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-028-A1.mov
http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-071-A1.mov
http://download.kinefinity.com/downl...001-094-A1.mov

When downloading the files, Attention that the server has limited
connections, so please download one file at one time.

Cineform Firstlight/Davinci Resolve/Speedgrade/Scratch could be used
for grading/rendering. May use the Cineform decoder
settings-->Demosaic Type-->advanced details to make image look
sharper.

Need to install Cineform decoder on your PC or MAC to playback,
Cineform Decoder download link:
http://cineform.com/gopro-cineform-decoder

]

You will also need to drag and drop the 3D-LUTs onto the Cineform (tm) LUT tool in the Cineform (tm) program folder,

http://download.kinefinity.com/download/XD48K04M.cube
http://download.kinefinity.com/download/XD48K04M.look

The 3D-LUT are mated to the ISO and K value used when shooting so need to be installed for the clips above to play with the right "one light" color correction, the look group used is intended for having the shots graded, so graded results would look better. Various monitoring LUT can be loaded into the camera and selected with the encoder knob from a quick button menu labeled "look", and depending on which "look" is selected the camera makes a corresponding 3D-LUT in each shot folder, in this case the same "look" was used for all my test shots so far, that are linked to above for those MOV files.

XNVIEW_quick_test_Alvin_KineRAW-S35_150mm_LOMO_JULY_10_1a_half_size_2.jpg

[Dan Hudgins]

Kinefinity.com (sm) have booth 2B222 at BIRTV 2012,

http://www.birtv.com/en/Eindex.aspx/

Quote: [The Must-Attend Industry Exhibition in Asia

BIRTV is China's most prestigious exhibition in the industry of radio,film and TV and a key part of China International Radio Film & Television Exposition.It is also the only one of such exhibitions which gains support from China government and is listed number one among the supported exhibitions in China's 12th Five Year's Developing Plan of Culture.]

They are also revising their web site now, the new web site will have sample images and footage you can download for compatibility testing with your own work-flow.

Here is a map showing the booth location,

http://www.birtv.com/upfiles/201208/2B0801.pdf

They will maybe have two KineRAW-S35 (tm) bodies there to show and be able to answer questions in person. If you are interested in getting one they will be there to talk about that as well. The price for the body may be about USD $6000, they are still working out the details.


====


I have attached some half size JPG taken from the 2048x1080 2K CinemaDNG True RAW sensor data frames the camera records on its internal (inserted) high speed SSD. If you would like to see some full size 2K TIF frames you can email me at: tempnulbox [at] yahoo [dot] com with "DVforums reader wants TIE frames" in the email subject line, the TIF are large so I can only email one per email.

I_S0509_F0074_KineRAW-S35_2K_DANCINEC_1a_plus_sharpen_half.jpg

I_S0501_F0861_KineRAW-S35_2K_DANCINEC_1a_half_sharp.jpg

XN_K_0004_00000001_half.JPG

XN_K_0003_00000001_half.JPG

XN_K_0005_00000001_half.JPG

[Almohada]

with "DVforums reader wants TIE frames" in the email subject line

You mean HV20 reader, right? Copy & paste, I see. Hehehe...

[Dr. Benway]

You mean HV20 reader, right?

Ahem. 'HV20UBERMASTERGEINUSOVERLORD has agreed to spare you time to consider your TIE frames.'

[Almohada]

Tie. Tif. Hahahaa

[Dan Hudgins]

I got a email from Kinefinity.com (sm) about the news from the trade show,

1) Quote: [Besides, i got hundreds of emails from different countries. But i have no time to reply to them in time. I will communicate with them soon.]

So please give them some time to reply as they are very busy right now.

2) Quote: [People love the image quality, [edit]. If our first 20 units work well as expected, we may get many orders in China.]

They got pre-orders at the trade show and are I guess going to ship about 10 to 20 units for advanced field testing, and when any issues that come up are workout on those cameras gear up for mass production.

3) Quote: [We did a great exhibition in Beijing. Our booth were crowded everyday nearly, and we missed lunch some days.]

4) They say they still have plans for the S8 and S16 models but are looking into the details in light of the other cameras that are under development in the market.

5) The new target body price for the KineRAW-S35 (tm) is about USD $6300.

6) They have worked with a company called MOVCAM (tm) to get accessories, you can check the MOVCAM (tm) web site to see more details and look at the photo below about what those look like with the camera.

So a lot of progress in the past year!

My Brother was shooting some lighting tests last night for a science fiction short he wants to see how the S35 looks under that short of lighting so we were shooting with the 2800K Tungsten "look" in the KineColor look group at EI ISO 800, that gives a slight blue cast to some of the lighting and better balance for the bulbs on a VariAC to control the lighting ratios. We were using a LOMO 100mm f/2.0 at T/2.8 and 144 degrees on the shutter. He seemed pleased with the results so far. The grading range is quite wide and there are no block artifacts of the kind that show up in H.264 recording cameras so it looks much like a 35mm film scan would, maybe with less grain and no processing marks like film would show.

[Dan Hudgins]

My Brother wanted to shoot some lighting tests with the KineRAW-S35 (tm), below is a quick half size JPG of one of the test frames so you can see how the light ratio worked out, I need to maybe use a stop more light next time, I was going to shoot wide open at f/2.0 on the 100mm LOMO OCT-19 lens, but he wanted T/2.8 so the waveforms were a bit low needing extra grading up so there is some mid-tone grain showing. The light level was very low on this shot, the camera was monitoring at ISO 800 but the image is very dark that way so this is graded up to maybe 3200 or more. The blue back-light on the left is a small LED flashlight from about 6 feet away. This was shot 1920x1080 and then cropped 1920x803 and letter-boxed. My Brother says that the 1920x1080 Cineform (tm) 'raw' files open in his editing program called "Power Director" from the camera's MOV files. So he can edit that way, for proxy or finish. This image was taken from a DNG frame as I was recording BOTH mode to get both CinemaDNG uncompressed and Cineform (tm) wavelet compressed MOV without H.264 like blocky artifacts. Normally you would shoot 2048x1080 and crop to 2048x858 for DCP projection in a Digital Movie Theatre, but it seems the copy of power director my Brother is using does not import 2K images, hence his wanting to shoot 1920x1080 so he can review the footage in his existing software as these are just tests, full production would probably be done at 2K.

S1976_I09_A372_half_size_grade1a_KineRAW-S35.jpg

[1]

Just wanted to say THANKS DAN for all the updates, and very cool info on this cam.

Also, the test frame looks awesome, and you have a tiny penis.

[Almohada]

and you have a tiny penis.

[1]

I added that, after I realized that Dan is just spamming the board now. Wanted to see if he actually read this thread and would comment on the remark.
But he's just posting verbatim SPAM all over the place. A shame really.

To me the Kinefinity Kineraw s35 is now nothing more than a shyster rip-off scam cam, thanks to Dan Hudgins, the fucking SPAMMER bitch.

[Ian-T]

Yes it's a shame. It would be nice if he personalized some of his posts over here. I know there are lots of questions folks have here.

That grab does look nice though. Very organic.

[Dan Hudgins]

As for the comments above, if your mother had taken the drug DES while she was carrying you you would probably suffer from the affliction you describe in such blunt terms. If your goal is to be mean and hurtful I hope your goal was meet.

I do check the forums I post to from time to time to see if there are any sensible questions relating my freeish DI system and its use with raw recording Digital Cinema Cameras. I did not start this thread, and I have tried to post reliant information, If you want to have a quicker response you can email me directly with "HV20 user wants a quicker reply" in the subject line.

==

I got time to convert the KineRAW-S35 ™ 2048x1080 version of the video Alvin Somwaru helped shoot in Golden Gate Park into Letter-boxed MPEG4 1920x1080 for posting on Vimeo,



http://vimeo.com/49064745


I used TEncoder ™ set to 12000 kbps and two pass compression for the conversion from the graded uncompressed AVI but there are still some compression artifacts that show up here and there, anyone have suggestions for a better free, or maybe not free, encoder for making H.264 video files that Vimeo will accept?

I was using just the MPEG4v2 option in VirtualDUB ™ but that is one pass and shows much worse compression artifacts. If you see the video as looking too light and washed out on your MAC notebook let me know about that, I may try to post another copy graded darker. It seems there is a bug in Quicktime ™ where it shows videos too light and washed out looking, under Media Player ™ on my Brother's PC with the CRT monitor set to 1920 resolution it looks OK as far as brightness. Viewing on a LCD or HD monitor it may look like the highlights are burned out and the shadows too dark since I encoded it full range for PC viewing.

If you follow the link for Alvin Somwaru from my Vimeo page for the video above, you can see some more footage on his Vimeo page he processed from Cineform ™ clips shot in the KineRAW-S35 ™ that I have not had time to grade and letterbox yet for posting on my Vimeo page...

[Dan Hudgins]

Yes it's a shame. It would be nice if he personalized some of his posts over here. I know there are lots of questions folks have here.

That grab does look nice though. Very organic.

What exactly are the "lots of questions folks have here?

You can always email Kinefinity.com (sm) directly and then they can tell me to post their reply on HV20 if there is an interest for that.

Other than that, you can email me at: tempnulbox [at] yahoo [dot] com with "HV20 forum has questions to answer" and include the URL of the page the question is on a Quote the question and I will try to get back as I am able, otherwise I check when there is some new information of general interest and I have some free time, I have not had much free time because they were getting ready for sales after BIRTV 2012 and the camera monitoring tables needed adjustments.

[Dr. Benway]

You can always email Kinefinity.com (sm) directly and...

And what? Confirm you have a small penis?

[Almohada]

Footage is horrible... I'd go with the GH2 any day

[mark84j]

Dan, from what you've sown us from this cam... it ain't anything special. Just a heavy and unnecessary piece of equipment that can be topped by something more than one fifth its size.

PS. Why the hate for Dan? Anyone care to fill me in?

EDIT. Jesus Christ he cannot post a reply without writing a goddamn thesis. :lol: