Brand and after effects questions

[azmyth]

So, we were aware of this when shooting but there was not alot that could be done at the time.. and on a "local" level its not a huge deal.. but on a DVD distribution level its a very big deal.

We have a few "Signs" that are clearly visible and some that are not distinguishable but you automatically know what they are just based on colors and design.

A few I know I will need to try and replace or blur out. I have one in particular that an actor steps in front of for a sec (his head moves over it in the background) I know how to keyframe, but shouldn't I be able to use keyframes to replace the sign?

also, is there any sort of rule for actually showing a sign or brand as long as its not for an extended period of time? What if its blurred in the background?

[Janke]

If a sign or brand name is incidental, not related to the story, and can't be construed as being used in a defamatory way, you should be OK with whatever there is in your shots.

Note though: IANAL.

[1]

Once more, I agree with Janke for the most part; the question you should ask yourself though (in case you're not self-distributing): How -and to what extent- might the sign(s) affect the person or persons who will decide whether or not to release your movie on DVD?

[azmyth]

If I knew we were going to be self distributing solely I wouldn't care, but i have a friend who may have us a dvd deal. So I want to have all my ducks in a row. so to speak..

here's the shots in question. It cuts back to the cop in this same shot 3 times, so you technically see the BP sign 3 times in that angle, and the wide shot like this one with the car.. you can see the bp sign again but not the letters BP.

[um3k]

We have many logos visible in our movie, it was completely unfeasible to remove the vast majority of them, given the setting. I'll let you know if we get sued.

[azmyth]

um3k didn't you guys get distribution?

[Video Frank]

I'm but a noob in the AE world but it would seem to be quite easy to block out the signs in question - so why not just do it and put your worries to bed? I's sure that AK has a tutorial for it on VCP.net somewhere.

[azmyth]

he does and I've already looked at it, but my problem is that objects move in front of the signs.. or in this case actors.. I can replace them easily if the camera or actors don't move.. but the camera and actors both move in all the shots and in some instances move back and forth in front of the signs. My knowledge of AE is pretty basic, so alot of motion tracking is out of my realm.

[net]

I don't have After Effects, but I remember seeing that the newer version has something similar to Photoshop where you can highlight the edges of a moving subject, extract it and then place it wherever you want while retaining the motion. I forgot what it's called, but the claim was that you could use it in place of chroma key without a green screen.

If you could extract the image of the actor, then replace the sign to something different (a made-up brand, for example) on another layer putting in that same spot, then put the actor back on as another layer in his original spot - then he would appear to be in front of the new sign.

I don't know how that function specifically works, but there should be a way to take out some of the background and/or clone it - or just fill it in with the same black color, since it's night.

[net]

The basic idea:

[Dr. Benway]

Forget AE. Check with a lawyer and make sure they're liable for any advice given - good luck!

[net]

Now that I think of it, it's not necessary to replace it with a fake brand.
Just fill in the spots with same black as the background using the eyedropper tool (or even white for that one sign):



And, assuming you can extract the actor as I described, then just put a whole layer of black filling the entire image:



...then paste the actor back on a new layer, without adding a fake brand:

[azmyth]

If that will work that'd be the perfect solution but I have no idea how to do that. I've blurred some logos in static shots but motion is what throws me off

[HueyNRolf]

Azmyth, you're confusing trade marks with copyright. You don't need permission to have them in your pictures, so don't waste your time trying to blur them all out.

[azmyth]

Well I've had some people tell me "no you can't" and some people say "yes you can". I've seen stuff blurred out in movies before, but i read 90% of the time its because big movies don't do free advertising.

[HueyNRolf]

Turn that on its head and ask yourself why you think you do need to blur trademarks out of your pictures?





http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/comics/zoomcomic.html

[net]

If that will work that'd be the perfect solution but I have no idea how to do that. I've blurred some logos in static shots but motion is what throws me off

There should be paint tools. Use the eyedropper to match the black background in the gas station shot and paint over the signs with a brush as a new layer. There's probably straight edge tools if want to do it neatly around the signs, like a square-looking tool to select an area, then paint inside the area. If it's like Photoshop it won't paint outside the area you select..

Regarding the actor shot - I searched it, it's called the Roto brush (possibly version CS5 only). Use the Roto-brush/extract layer of the actor from the image (I don't know if you have to save it as a new layer).
Then make a new layer with just all black (use eyedropper to match color of black background) and then use paint bucket and fill in whole layer. Order this all-black layer on top of the original so that now it will cover the original image of the actor with BP sign.
The all-black layer will always cover the original image and the actor will be on top of the black image, so you won't see the BP sign.

Put the extracted actor/roto brush layer at the very top of the layer order, so that it goes: Roto-brushed actor on very top, then all-black layer under, then original image on the bottom.



EDIT : after just watching through the video, you probably could just use the black background that is made after the roto brush action, thus getting rid of the BP sign, without adding the black layer as I suggested above - just do the roto brush alone and see if it works.

It may work in this situation because your actor is front of a black background.

[HueyNRolf]

See also:

Trademarks.
There are a lot of trademarks shown in Super Size Me, and that is okay. The basic rule is that you can photograph a trademark and include it in your film without permission so long as you are using the mark in the way it was intended to be used. Trademarks exist to let the public know the source of a product, and generally speaking, as long as you don’t create any confusion about the product or its source you are on good legal ground.

http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/iss...ed_lawsuit.php

[um3k]

um3k didn't you guys get distribution?

Yes indeedy. A few key scenes were shot in a video game store, which is absolutely plastered with logos. If we can get away with that, then you're so far in the clear that it's starting to become opaque again.

My personal viewpoint is, if companies are going to post their trademarks all over the place, they have no right to complain when they appear in movies. Of course, I am far from a lawyer.

I like that comic Huey posted.

[Dr. Benway]

...if companies are going to post their trademarks all over the place, they have no right to complain when they appear in movies.

Yet their visual pollution is our problem. Still, it's free advertising for them.

[Almohada]

it's okay, it's a BP logo

[Almohada]

I see a vintage police vehicle.

[azmyth]

yeah its a ford galaxy. The city let us use it for our deputy who seems to be stuck in the past and refuses to get with the times.

[arco1]

Caveat - I'm an After Effects wizard, not a copyright lawyer.

One big issue might occur if you're movie became a HUGE success (think: midnight cult classic like "Rocky Horror.") You'd have all sorts of folks claiming million-dollar infringements, hoping you'd settle out of court for $100K to avoid the hassle. You probably don't have your own team of lawyers like Disney and Caterpillar.

My thinking, why would anyone want to give any corporate lawyer the chance to earn his keep by hassling you with tons of legal paper?

Replace / blur / or hide the signs. The explanation by -net- is one way to solve the problem. If you don't have the After Effects skills or the time to learn, I might be able to help. Or there's probably other folks on this board that would do it for you for a $hundred or two and/or production credit. Or you could even do it frame-by-frame in Photoshop.


Jim

[azmyth]

Photoshop I can definitely do.