Editing in uncompressed 60i and finishing in 24p with Premiere

[RHKFilm]

Editing in 60i and finishing in 24p with Premiere
This is probably only useful to you if you capture your vidoe via the Blackmagic Design Intensity Card. It might be more useful to just transcode your footage up front, but I thought I'd throw this out there anyways in case it interested anyone.

I have verified that this works for uncompressed 24p wrapped in 60i sources from BMD Intensity live capture. The resulting final exported movies are the same length (to the frame!) and the 24p project looks much smoother.

Editing in 60 and finishing in 24p with Premiere
First: The short version for those so inclined.
Create your 60i project and edit it in Premiere.
Use Project/Project Manager to rebuild your project with 90 second handles
Reverse the pull-down on all of the trimmed media (found with the rebuilt project)
Create a new project with 23.976 framerate and import your rebuilt project
Re-link all of the media with the 23.976 version.
Now your project is in perfect 23.976p

Second: the long version - step by step
Open Premiere Pro 2.0 (this may work in earlier versions too, not sure though)
Create a "New Project" with settings identical to your source media.
Import your media and start editing away.
Once you're satisfied with your cut, go to Project>Project Manager
Select "Create new project" "Exclude unused clips" "Include Handles: 90 frames" (note that must be changed from default), and "Rename media files to match clip names"
Choose a Project destination and make sure you have enough space free.
Click OK to rebuild your project with only the necessary media.
Import the trimmed footage into Adobe After Effects
Right-click and choose "Interperet Media"
Click on "Guess 3:2 pulldown"
Click OK then repeat for each clip
Highlight all of the clips and add them to the render queue
Choose filenames and destinations that make sense to you and click Render. This will batch render all of your clips to 24p
Open Premiere
Create a new project at a framerate of 23.976 with the desired final resolution of your project. Make sure you choose the same codec you converted your footage to with After Effects
Import your rebuilt project and select all of the source media.
Right-click and choose "Make Offline"
Right click on each piece of media and choose "Link Media"
Point to the 24p version of the file and click "OK"
Once you have done this for all of the media, open the sequence from the rebuilt project and export your final movie
*Note that I have not verified that sound will make it through this process yet. It may be necessary to render out the sound separately.

I have not figured out a great way to do this with HDV yet as using the "rebuild project" function just copies the whole HDV file which would cause huge 24p transcodes.
I am trying to figure out a way to "rebuild" a Vegas project so that the same workflow would apply to Vegas. Let me know if you have found this function in Vegas.

-Robert

[vincehax]

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for.

Might using pulldown.exe instead of AE to remove pulldown work around any sound issues that might come up?

Also, it looks like this only works when you're using the Black Magic Card, but what if you're using HDV split? Would you have to convert your .m2t's to .avi's in order to make this work?

[lordtangent]

It's not a good idea to remove pulldown after the edit. The workflow suggested above "works around" the the worst technical side effects you might get by removing pulldown after the edit but the fact remains you wont have a frame accurate edit after the rebuild/IVTC step.

It's almost always a good idea to remove pulldown first. If you are worried about using a ton of disk space, may I suggest my "Transcodeless" workflow for Premiere? It does the IVTC on the fly, straight from the HDV material.
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=3414

If you are using Uncompressed from the Intensity, there is no advantage to my "Transcodeless" workflow, or putting off IVTC until last for that matter. Doing the IVTC up front will infact reduce disk space usage by at least 20% (by removing the unneeded fields of video) It would reduce disk usage even more if you use lossless compression lilke HUFFYUV, Lagarith or SheerVideo to suff the 24p back into. Once you have the IVTC done you can blow away the uncompressed 24p in 60i material and free up the disk space it was using. (keeping only the 24p material on disk)

Caveat: If you do your IVTC though After Effects, you are totally unnecessarily round tripping YCbCr though RGB. No es bueno.

It's possible to keep it all YCC though the process but it takes some work. (I devised a work flow but it's so ugly I haven't bothered sharing it with anyone. The only reason I even use it myself is that I have it all automated and now the computer does all the work.)

[RHKFilm]

I agree lordtangent. transcoding up front does save space. you "transcodeless workflow" is also a great alternative. the workflow posted above does have utility in some way, though I'm not sure the best way to use it. The rebuild and replace media was frame accurate as far as I could tell. As I mentioned in the post above, part of my intention for the post is to stimulate thought about a good way to utilize the rebuild project function.

I gave up on Premiere or I would have dug a little deeper. *The ideal situation would be to edit with the HDV files captured via firewire, then rebuild the finished project and replace that media with 24p uncompressed media.* The problem is that Premiere won't truncate HDV files in the same way it truncates .avi files. Perhaps someone can figure out how to get Premiere to trim .m2t files? Maybe it's an option in PPro 3.?

-Robert

[lordtangent]

Where are you getting the uncompressed files? I was assuming you were capturing.

For HDV sourced stuff, the transcodeless online/offline workflow is a good way to go if you are worried about disk space.