Event shooting with dslrs, questions

[Kostas]

I have been thinking a lot about it lately, that is, enter in the event shooting market as a freelancer using dslrs.
Yesterday, I have met a guy that works in the theater as an actor, and has previous experience as director too. He has a lot of studio equipment and is currently interested in starting a new business offering event shooting (photo+video). The idea is to offer full coverage using dslrs and a possibly more refined work than the average local business. If we bring our equipment together, we have apparently a good arsenal (2 5d markII bodies, maybe 3 in the future, and 2crop sensor Canon cameras, a lot of lenses, EF plus vintage manuals, lights, microphones, slider, steadicam, tripods, monopod, follow focus, shoulder support, editing software etc.). He would do the photography part and I would do the video part.
This would be, initially at least, a second job for both of us.
The problem is that neither of us has previous experience in event shooting, so I am a bit reluctant. Competition is harsh in this field and people usually tend to prefer a well established local photography studio (even though most of these studios work with freelancers).
The first problem, to start with, is how do you manage to build a portfolio in this case?
Because it appears to be a vicious circle: No portfolio to exhibit, no client and no client means no potential to make a portfolio.

Second, I want to evaluate what equipment I can use and what not for video. I mean if I can setup a multicam coverage to do some slides, a bit of steadicam, some wide angles and some closeups and if I can handle all this by myself not loosing any moment of the ceremony. And how many bodies do I need in this case, plus batteries, plus grips etc.

Third if the choice of DSLRs (knowing the shortcomings of overheating and 12m recording limit, battery drain from live view etc.) can handle this for video of the event. Most local studios use heavy videocameras, and the usual setup for video I have encountered is shooting with the camera on the shoulder plus a monopod on the belt for additional stability, a hotshoe microphone and a video light on top of the camera. I am afraid dslr needs different handling to make it through the event and not loose critical moment, and then there is the issue of the look (the client is probably more happy seeing a heavy videocamera, rather than a small dslr body even if it is on a big shoulder support). I do have my hv30 (but I wouldn't dare showing up with such a small camera), and we do have a large professional videocamera too, but the idea was to focus on dslrs due to the number of bodies, and the overall aesthetics.
Also I don't know if most video operators shoot in 50fps to make it look like video, on the dslrs, it would be 25fps. I guess the output is dvd or bluray.

I will meet the guy this weekend to speak a lot more in detail, but I am debating on whether it is a clever choice to start like this, or if it is better to make some experience as a second shooter initially... And what else to propose in order to start better (we could start this fall probably).

What do you guys suggest regarding the above issues and/or other issues I should consider?

Thanks.

[blondandfun]

no continuous autofocus during an unpredictable event is both stupid and risky. It can be done with a wedding, only because there is very little unpredictable movement going on. Bride walks in, light candle, kiss, walk out... Big freakin deal..

[HD-tography]

Wow you're asking a LOT for just one post in one thread, there ARE many other threads on this subject, but let's look at your questions a bit closer... (NOTE: I am not a professional, but have looked into this very closely and am at the same level of this game you are, as I started just this year into weddings)

The first problem, to start with, is how do you manage to build a portfolio in this case?
Because it appears to be a vicious circle: No portfolio to exhibit, no client and no client means no potential to make a portfolio.

The best advise would be to start by offering the first 3-5 weddings for free or minimal cost (to cover transportation and media costs) with the contract stating you are a novice and wish to build a demo reel, so you will in turn maintain full ownership and rights to all captured footage for use in promotional material for your business. Make sure you be selective in the clients you take on, only taking on cooperative clients that give you freedom of creativity by allowing you priority access to everything, or at least on par with their hired photographer (this can often be a battle and duel for the shots, see Lunchbox's "Can you find the photographers, volume 1, volume 2, & volume 3"). Also be sure to select only good looking clients that booked aesthetically pleasing venues. Often the best thing it to offer this service to friends (or friends of friends) or family as they will be more cooperative.

Second, I want to evaluate what equipment I can use and what not for video. I mean if I can setup a multicam coverage to do some slides, a bit of steadicam, some wide angles and some closeups and if I can handle all this by myself not loosing any moment of the ceremony.

You can do most of it solo if using at least one camcorder as a static cam on a high tripod for wide shots, and you running around with the dslr on the steadycam, shoulder support, or additional tripod. However, it is almost always necessary to have a minimum of 2 shooters, as you can't be in 2 places at once (full days coverage often includes dressing both the bride and groom, and one needs to scout location as well, and set ups/tear downs are time consuming, especially using tripods, sliders, steadycams, even cranes).

how many bodies do I need in this case, plus batteries, plus grips etc.

Once again IMO a minimum of one camcorder is required for lengthy recordings, wide shots, static backups in case you miss the critical shot with your dslr, and assist with audio sync in post. Then you need a minimum of 2 dslr's, each with a grip and about 6 batteries for them in total, provided you bring 2 chargers) to be enough for one mobile shooter, with one being the backup to the other in case of overheating. I think you have most of the equipment needed already to do a nice job, except maybe your audio gear?

I am afraid dslr needs different handling to make it through the event and not loose critical moment

Everything takes practice, but remember you are using dslr's for a reason, so use the depth of field and don't be afraid to pull focus and play with the cinematic creativity they offer, once again with a static camcorder running as backup for WHEN you totally screw it up! LOL This is what will set you apart from all the rest, even the big photography studios!

Before you rush out and tackle your first big event, be sure to practice practice practice! (on location if at all possible)

then there is the issue of the look (the client is probably more happy seeing a heavy videocamera, rather than a small dslr body even if it is on a big shoulder support). I do have my hv30 (but I wouldn't dare showing up with such a small camera), and we do have a large professional videocamera too, but the idea was to focus on dslrs due to the number of bodies, and the overall aesthetics.

Yeah, well that's what cinema gear is for... it bulks it up, gives you heavier and therefore steadier dslr cameras, and looks way more professional to the clients.

Check out some of my latest rigs for dslr shooting:











Heck even your HV30 when fitted with some decent accessories can look more professional, check out my HF S200 when decked out:

we could start this fall probably

Better to get your feet wet this summer, almost nobody gets married in the fall, unless you live somewhere nice, like say in Greece! LOL sorry just jealous

it is a clever choice to start like this, or if it is better to make some experience as a second shooter initially

You would be wise to shoot for someone else at least the first few times, the experience will be invaluable to you later and they can teach you tricks that you may learn the hard way later on... start as a volunteer or paid second shooter under an experienced company if you have that oppertunity!

Finally, the single best investment I have made so far was to buy a very comprehensive book on this subject, called "Wedding Videography Start to Finish" which covers absolutely everything including all aspects of starting your business, marketing, equipment, pre-production planning, shooting concepts, the event day in GREAT detail, editing, post production, output and delivery, and very creative business concepts.

Honestly, I really can't say enough about this book, and no I have no affiliation to the author or publisher.

Those are my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

[cgbier]

HD, your rig looks cool, but do you really think it matches a tuxedo for a wedding?

Kostas, your buddy's working at a theater? Why not faking a demo reel?

[HD-tography]

HD, your rig looks cool, but do you really think it matches a tuxedo for a wedding?

LOL thanks, the big one actually is more for short planned shoots (and for show to be completely honest), WAY to heavy to run around with all day, especially with a matte box! After I built it, I found out because of the size and weight it is more glamor than practical. However the cage comes off and results in some amazing low shots on its own. The 2 smaller ones are VERY effective though, incredibly light weight because of the carbon fiber and CNC machined aluminum, and provide excellent stability while giving a more professional look to the camera. I enjoy wearing an expensive suit (no not a tuxedo) and running around with fancy toys, but in the end it's what gets the job done, and appears respectable to the client.

Between 2 shoulder rigs on 2 high tripods, a tripod dolly, a slider, a skater dolly, a flycam nano, and a 12 foot crane (if the client lets me bring it and I have an extra guy to set up and run it that is) you can really be creative and pull off some VERY smooth and creative shots in style, but it takes planning and practice! (as I'm finding out) not to mention a couple sets of hands (assistants), which cost money. I also have a couple outdoor gigs coming up this summer and will be experimenting with a GoPro HD mounted on an RC helicopter for aerial shots... very exciting indeed! I was also hoping to hide a GoPro HD on a small boy somehow who is the ring bearer as he walks down the isle, capturing a POV shot of the ceremony... don't know if it will work yet, but I'm thinking about it!

Cinematic shooting is the only edge dslr's have over the competition, and the more we exploit them, the more you set yourself apart from the crowd. Don't be afraid to get creative with events and weddings, but have a back up static cam running when you do as there are no second takes! If you do screw yourself out of a critical shot, be quick to think of cutaway footage that can hide your mistake to an acceptable level. None of this is new, but is well worth repeating.

Those are my thoughts, your mileage may vary.

[cgbier]

That's exactly what I mean. You may get some drools on a movie set with them rigs, on a wedding you might scare off the guests

[Kostas]

Guys I really appreciate your extensive feedback. Really helpful.
@hd-topography: I have a gini rig in the mail too! Thanks for all details.
@cg: faking a wedding on location was my first thought too but I somehow feel the priest is not going to accept...
@blondandfun: you can get deep dof with wide angles on DSLR too, but camcorders have I indeed other advantages. A wedding is always unpredictable because there are people acting up spontaneously. And each time you have to capture the personality of the ceremony.
Tomorrow I have a meeting with the guy and we'll start from there.

I'll get back here. In the meantime further suggestions are welcome.

[cgbier]

I somehow feel the priest is not going to accept...

There's no-one in the theater group who could fake a priest? I'd assume you also have a few civil weddings in Greece. Look for the most boring looking guy in the troupe and make him the justice of peace.

BTW: I witnessed a Greek orthodox wedding in the cathedral of Worms (Germany) once. Orthodox priests seem to have the voices of opera singers...

[movielighter]

(above) Quite a rig, Even matches the furniture! Awesome!

[HD-tography]

That's exactly what I mean. You may get some drools on a movie set with them rigs, on a wedding you might scare off the guests

Well I see it slightly differently, and have chosen to use branding and a flashy style of gear to sway opinions of what a wedding shoot should look like. I want to offer different packages with different levels of cinematography, each style tells a story, but needs to be shot in a different way, therefore I will let the clients decide before hand how invasive and visual our presence will be, all the way from "barely seen" to "you're the big star" Hollywood movie shoot on the big day, and big flashy gear is a part of that concept. Will it work for everyone, no... will it work for a percentage of people who want more attention and something different (usually young couples who are more self absorbed than older ones)... dunno, only time will tell.

(above) Quite a rig, Even matches the furniture! Awesome!

Ha I never really noticed, indeed you are right!

[cgbier]

"barely seen"

That's the magic word. As photo/videographer you are supposed to be barely seen. A wedding is the bride's show, not yours to show off your gear
At the end of the day, your client (at least in this business) wants nice visuals and gives a crap what you are shooting with. However, block the view of some guests during the ceremony and your reputation is down the drain.

[HD-tography]

That's the magic word. As photo/videographer you are supposed to be barely seen. A wedding is the bride's show, not yours to show off your gear
At the end of the day, your client (at least in this business) wants nice visuals and gives a crap what you are shooting with. However, block the view of some guests during the ceremony and your reputation is down the drain.

You see, I'm out to change all that... at least for a percentage of the market that is... can't be like all the rest and expect to thrive. You have to think outside the box, it's the only way things change, and get much better.

Of course, there will be various options for the rest of the boring folks who want boring coverage. However, there will be no secrets or surprises when it comes to the invasiveness of getting the one take stellar footage should the client desire it. They have to decide what they want, and if they are willing to compromise in the ascetics of the ceremony and reception, however due to flashy gear the compromise is minimized and it all becomes part of the show (you are in there anyway, might as well ad to the show).

Make no mistake, this concept is NOT for everyone, but then again, I never said it was

[HueyNRolf]

The editing is the make or break of a wedding video, or indeed any production. Of course the camera work is important, but as long as you're reasonable, you can make a great video with an HV20.

[HD-tography]

The editing is the make or break of a wedding video, or indeed any production. Of course the camera work is important, but as long as you're reasonable, you can make a great video with an HV20.

+1 Huey, I couldn't agree more! Also, the HV cams are very capable, even for weddings.

However, IMO the camera work is still the backbone, you can't make something from nothing consistently, and when you do the work noticeably suffers. In my limited experience so far, the pre-shoot planing and preparation along with the creative shooting are the difference between an acceptable final delivery and an amazing one, and rarely do you get recommendations and sustainable business from mere average. It's like, do you want to be good or great? Because greatness takes more work, and few achieve it, no matter what camera or equipment they use.

[cgbier]

HD, maybe I'm too conservative, but that you are there doesn't mean you are part of the show. It is the bride's show, not yours. You are only offering a service, just like the florist or the waiters serving the reception tables.

You can get your stellar shots without intrusion. That's what you have long lenses for. These lenses have the advantage that you can get very intimate shots of the couple without giving them the unease of having a camera smack right in their face. People are the most relaxed when they know that they DON'T get photographed. A wedding is already enough stress for the couple. You don't want to add to it.

Believe me, I'm talking of experience. There never has been a better compliment to me than someone telling me "dang, I didn't realize you were taking that shot".

What your planning works with shots that you set up, but don't think your victims will act really natural.

But try it. I'd like to see what you get together (and hope you can prove me wrong).

[HueyNRolf]

Of course 'greatness' is subjective. I find a lot of wedding videos slow and boring. I like to make my point and move on, as quickly as possible, to the next point. Where a lot of people apply slomo, i'd be speeding the take up for better pacing. Turns out that most people I speak to like my approach and cringe when they're shown long wedding videos. Odd how the couple seem to have a disconnect here and will happily sit through hours of their own wedding.

I guess if you're getting paid you have to do as instructed. I've only done one paid gig and a couple of free ones for family. So if it's unpaid, I'll edit it right down and try to make it watchable for anyone. The last one was 20 minutes (full edit) plus a 3 minute music-vid style cut vs the three-hour ordeal which the wedding house produced.

[HD-tography]

You really have some great points there cgbier and Huey, especially with the long lenses adding to a more relaxed atmosphere, and therefore clients.... we'll see what happens I guess.

I suppose I just know too many self absorbed drama queens to ignore the attention hunger... LOL male and female alike. I think there may be a market for the concept I described, however it may be a small one. I'm gonna experiment with trying to pull off the same shots at distance for the ceremony portion and see what I come up with... dressing room, photo session and reception are a different story all together, in my limited experience most people love to perform for a fancy camera.

Turns out that most people I speak to like my approach and cringe when they're shown long wedding videos. Odd how the couple seem to have a disconnect here and will happily sit through hours of their own wedding.

Yeah I've noticed sometimes you have to make 2 or 3 cuts to please everyone, a 20 minute summary, a 3-4 minute highlights, and a 3 hour torture chamber (except to the clients for some sadistic reason)

if it's unpaid, I'll edit it right down and try to make it watchable for anyone

Yeah, good stuff! I'm certain the relatives thanked you for it in their hearts.

vs the three-hour ordeal which the wedding house produced.

Oh the pain, the humanity... just horrendous, but when you're the newly wed couple, every last piece of stock footage is gold. Maybe I'll understand if ever I marry, till then, they're all NUTZ!

[HueyNRolf]

+1 to CG.
Natural is best because when people perform for the camera they tend to make a horse's ass of themselves.

[HD-tography]

The secret to good screenwriting is to add random objects. Just get them in there somehow.

I just noticed this now... HaHaHa nice one Huey! LMAO

[net]

I want to offer different packages with different levels of cinematography, each style tells a story, but needs to be shot in a different way, therefore I will let the clients decide before hand how invasive and visual our presence will be, all the way from "barely seen" to "you're the big star" Hollywood movie shoot on the big day, and big flashy gear is a part of that concept.

I saw a wedding reception set-up, over 10 years ago, that had a huge stage for the band, massive lights and a video camera on a remote-controlled crane that could pan over the whole room. It was an epic set-up.
I was like "WTF?"

[HD-tography]

I saw a wedding reception set-up, over 10 years ago, that had a huge stage for the band, massive lights and a video camera on a remote-controlled crane that could pan over the whole room.

Dam now that's what I'm talking about man! I love it! Better yet, get a GoPro HD on a motorized cable cam and stretch it across the room overhead, for outdoor shoots break out the RC Helli and Blimp, pair it with a 12 foot crane and Konova vertical slider, add a flycam/steadycam to the mix, top it all off with a pile of 10 or so HD 1080p P&S cams (to give to the guests for the reception coverage you just can't buy) and you have got one heckofa tin can to craft a masterpiece from... which is what my wedding will look like, should I ever find a woman who understands me to marry that is

[net]

Dam now that's what I'm talking about man! I love it! Better yet, get a GoPro HD on a motorized cable cam and stretch it across the room overhead, for outdoor shoots break out the RC Helli and Blimp, pair it with a 12 foot crane and Konova vertical slider, add a flycam/steadycam to the mix, top it all off with a pile of 10 or so HD 1080p P&S cams (to give to the guests for the reception coverage you just can't buy) and you have got one heckofa tin can to craft a masterpiece from... which is what my wedding will look like, should I ever find a woman who understands me to marry that is

You could call your service:

Wedding: EXTREME!!

[HD-tography]

You could call your service:

Wedding: EXTREME!!

While a little beyond my initial concept, I'm certain there would be a small market for it... maybe the pros who have been in the game for a while just haven't noticed (or refuse to) how the young new generation of clients have changed so much, and love the spotlight! In fact, there are a group I like to refer to plainly as the "alternative" crowd, that thirst for such madness, and as every other day is spent absent from the norm/mold, why should the wedding day be any different? Anyhow, new markets emerge all the time, and then fade away, so like I said... only time will tell.

[cgbier]

There actually is a market for that. However, them guys ask a lot of cash for it. Don't do that stuff on the cheap.

in my limited experience most people love to perform for a fancy camera

In my 20 some years experience in semi-professional photography, most people are camera shy. Especially at high-stress day like a wedding. The bride will be very conscious how she looks on cam... be prepared for a lot of bitching. Drama Queen is a good one.... and btw: They have less problems with a POS cam in their face than a medium format Mamiya (still haven't figured out why).

3 hours? We try to talk our clients out of it. We do most the ceremony (about 60-75 minutes in church or 20 minutes with the mayor) and roughly 30-45 minutes for the reception - the usual highlights (speeches, cake, first dance, important guests and a bit horsing around). Plus a highlight disk.
Interesting: None of our wedding clients would ever watch their full length wedding on video, but they spend days on watching funerals (a whole day event in the islands).

[HD-tography]

Interesting: None of our wedding clients would ever watch their full length wedding on video, but they spend days on watching funerals (a whole day event in the islands).

That is VERY interesting indeed! Hmmm full day's funeral coverage, EXTREME style ! New market? LOL