FINAL TEST Ee-A or Ee-S ??????

[twoneil]

Ee-S vs Ee-A

1. Tested both with the SAME Nikon 50mm f1.4
2. Canon HV20 set at AutoP.
3. Lowlight; 2x 50w lighting.
4. The focused distance is the SAME (even though there's a difference with the blur)
5. It is the same adapter and same gg holder (I almost scratched both of them)
6. All variables stay the same except focusing screen.


Side by side comparison


------Ee-S ------------------------------------------------------------Ee-A -----



Depth of Field & Vignetting Test Focused object: first Nikon lens


Full size 1b
Full size 2a


Bokeh Test Focused object: small transparent plastic


Fullsize BOKEH 1b
Fullsize BOKEH 2a


BTW, the grain is due to the GIF compression.




Which one is best? 1b or 2a?
Please put your votes up there.







*this experiment is conducted by twoneil and affiliates (if any) in a somewhat controlled manner in which highly sophisticated and rigorous tests have all been done within the entire span of 3 minutes. Therefore, we (I) do not guarantee the accuracy of such information nor we (I) accept any responsibility of causing regret, letdowns, ill-feelings and jealousy of purchasing a specific focusing screen that is unfavorable to the results of our(my) experiment.
Cheers

[duketh]

the focus looks off on the large 2A DOF test, or just not as sharp. I somehow know i've voted against the one i own

[Spencer Stewart]

I like the 1B. Isn't it supposed to be optimized for faster lenses?
But it's also darker too correct?

The bokeh looks a lot cleaner and less distracting on the 1B, in my opinion, but they both look pretty good.

I just recieved a Brevis GG. Will they fit in Daniel's holder? Otherwise I'm probably going to buy one of these.

Thanks a lot for posting this!

[Worley]

I'll go with 1B, too, though there are parts I like in both. Tricky.

Like Duketh, I think I've voted for the one I don't have!

[Duke]

I like 1B. It seems brighter and I liked the slightly better DOF.

In the second test the focus spot seems to be in the back by the metal post on the table, not on the lense.

However, with more light and focus on the foreground 2A would look better.

Truly I think what these are demonstrating is that the 2A GG has a much narrower DOF and less light. Therefore, with a manual focus on a moving object the 1B GG would be much more forgiving.

For me this great. I was going to buy both screens and so a same sort of test, and I think I know which GG is which, so now I have my answer.

Thanks!
Duke

[pelai]

Thank you for this great test!
I have been wondering for a while about the real-life differences between these two! I sure hope it's the 1B you are using in your adapter since it's clear to me that there is a huge difference between them. I'm not saying yet which one is B1 to keep the suspense a little bit longer but I have a pretty good idea.
Not only the focusing is a lot clearer on the B1 but also there is less vignetting. It seems impossible with the A1 to set the focus correctly as the DOF seems to be way too short. It almost looks deformed and makes me feel a bit drunk.

[wolferic]

A couple of nit-picks:

a. since you had your camera set to AutoP, there should be no difference in brightness – what we are really seeing is some pretty heavy fall-off (and not just in the corners) on 2A

b. you removed something in the upper lefthand corner and the middle right between image 2A and 1B (did your phone ring ) so it makes it hard to compare what's happening up there

c. the edge of the ground glass shifted between the two on the right hand side, so I am assuming that you were not zoomed in too tight. Good for the test, but I think the same test for vigneting would be easier to see on a more even background

Nonetheless, this is a fantastic service for all of us – especially those lucky enough to have NOT already bought their focusing screen. I would rather not say which I prefer, but am more interested to see if I can guess which is which and how accurately Canon described the effect of each.

Again, thanks a ton for testing this, and if I hadn't already built my own, I would happily buy one of your adapters.

[Worley]

There have been 20 votes. Come on, tell us which is which!

[duketh]

TELL US!!!!!! (please)

[twoneil]

Thank you for this great test!
I have been wondering for a while about the real-life differences between these two! I sure hope it's the 1B you are using in your adapter since it's clear to me that there is a huge difference between them. I'm not saying yet which one is B1 to keep the suspense a little bit longer but I have a pretty good idea.
Not only the focusing is a lot clearer on the B1 but also there is less vignetting. It seems impossible with the A1 to set the focus correctly as the DOF seems to be way too short. It almost looks deformed and makes me feel a bit drunk.

.....hehe, I see that you seem to mix the 2A with 1B.
I made it that way so you're judgement won't be influenced by the hierarchy of the numbers or the letters.

[pelai]

.....hehe, I see that you seem to mix the 2A with 1B.
I made it that way so you're judgement won't be influenced by the hierarchy of the numbers or the letters.

Revealing their identity in ...okay 3days.

Hahhaha!

I told you I got a dizzy and drunky feeling by those pics!

[Dmitriy]

When I read this, I was about 2 hours away from gluing my Ee-A focusing screen to the GG holder. Now I put my project on pause in hopes of confirming that Ee-A is indeed 1B. If not, B&H is about to steal $30 from me.

Sometimes knowledge is a curse....

[twoneil]

2A = Ee-S
1B = Ee-A

Cheers!

[duketh]

I KNEW IT!

interesting though because the Ee-S has a stronger bokeh and this is what we were all after originally right? but then i look at the Ee-A and I like the sharper area of focus and the reduced vignetting (if that is from the screen or just bad test environment).

Leaving a lens open to its maxium f-stop doesnt give you its best performance, its usually 2 stops under ie. f2 or f2.8. So The Ee-S could yeild better results in sharpness and still keep the strong bokeh at 2 stops under its max f-stop. I might be rambling to justify why i just bought another Ee-S after the touch of death.

[wolferic]

DAMN! Looks like I'll be changing my ground glass soon...

PS: Love the disclaimer. Wow. Three minutes? I don't think I can even get my adapter off the camera in under 3 minutes! And you are indemnified – I bought my screen before the test.

[Duke]

This is what I think most of us suspected, but I was holding off installing an EE-A GG until I saw the results. Thank you.

Since the biggest downfall of this camera is low light problems, then adding a DOF adapter causing further light loss, I guess the concensous for parts recommendations will now be an EE-A screen and a 1.4 lens for maximum light gathering.

It would be interesting to see, if someone has the parts, how many f-stops difference it makes to have an EE-A screen and 1.4 lens vs. and EE-S screen and 1.8 lens. My guess is EE-A/1.4 will be a 1.5 f-stop loss, and EE-S/1.8 will be 2.5 f-stop loss (or there abouts).

Duke

[twoneil]

btw i wonder what the "native" bokeh of that lens is. it looks very ring shaped with strong "starring" at the aperture "corners". is this from the gg or the lens you think?

/matt

This is from the GG. I use the same lens for both tests. An old manual Nikon 50mm f1.4 lens.

[Alex_MD]

My personal expirience of comparing EE-A to EE-S:

- EE-A appears to give a bit sharper image
- EE-S has *much* shallower DOF. When focusing with EE-A on object 3m away,
the infinity background will be almost just as sharp as the object in focus.
- static EE-A has a nasty blur effect on bright light sources in the background; not so nasty when vibrating, but still sucks.

To sum it all up:
EE-A is brighter and sharper, but deep DOF kills the very 35mm adapter idea. If you ask me, EE-A is worthless.
EE-S provides more film-like artistic look... and vignetting just adds to it.

[tkmslee]

I changed from using the Nikon D screen to the ee-s screen. I had heard good things about it and also some complaints. But I was very happy with it and very impressed. This clip is a static screen...can't wait to try it vibrating.

http://hv20.info/yopu/campFloydsm.mov

[threadhanger]

Nice footage tkmslee. Do you think vibrating would improve those shots though? I would think adding some slight old timey movie fx like grain and flickering would cover up any perfections from the focusing screen. That is if you don't mind the Grindhouse look.

Also..are these Ee-A and Ee-S screens the same ones available at BH Photo? The pictures of these seem to show a slight circle in the middle. Looks like the HV20 would pick that up unless it only shows on one side of the focusing screen.

[suta]

I changed from using the Nikon D screen to the ee-s screen. I had heard good things about it and also some complaints. But I was very happy with it and very impressed. This clip is a static screen...can't wait to try it vibrating.

http://hv20.info/yopu/campFloydsm.mov

Hi tkmslee,

great footage!
if possible please send some 720p screenshots or video samples

[Worley]

Also..are these Ee-A and Ee-S screens the same ones available at BH Photo? The pictures of these seem to show a slight circle in the middle. Looks like the HV20 would pick that up unless it only shows on one side of the focusing screen.

Neither should have a circle on them. They are completely blank. The circle you see, I think, is just from the light where the photo was taken. Nothing to worry about.

[threadhanger]

Thanks for the information Worley. I've been doing some tests with a very crude 35mm set up. I used a cheap 35mm vivitar lens, some pvc pipe, black tape, Sticky Putty, various stepup rings, and the focusing screen out of a old Olympus camera. It was ok for what it was..the screen has a black-lined rectangle in it. But it gave me a taste of the bokah experience.

I'm about to order a 50mm 1.4 lens off of ebay (to be attached to my adapter by gluing the end lens cap to the pvc). It's just a matter of deciding the focusing screen. I'm kind of leaning toward the Ee-S because of it's shallower dof. Eventually I'll probably order the achromat and pancake vibrating motor off of Daniel's site.

[Worley]

I'm tempted by the EE-A (and have 25 on order!)

Although the EE-S does have a much shallower depth of field, sometimes it can be just a little too shallow. There are times when I want the background to be less out of focus - it can add a greater feeling of menace if you can almost see that something creepy is there.

[minxshin]

Do you find it easier to focus the ee-s as opposed to the ee-a?