Story, story, story, story, story, story. Did I mention Story! ?

[Gillvane]

I watch a lot of short films, just like you guys, and this revelation isn't anything new.

But it's never been so apparent to me that the number one thing that matters is the story.

Why has it never been so apparent before? Because I've never seen so much good looking footage before.

I mean really, both here and at Cinema 5d, there are shorts posted that are just stunning to look at.

The framing is spot on, the lighting is good, the Image Quality is fantastic. It looks like a Hollywood production! The editing it tight, the sound quality is great! It's really, really impressive.

But 9 times out of 10, it's boring. The story is some sort of made for Lifetime TV drama, or a "gotcha" ending, or a comedy that isnt' really funny.

Granted, I like some very specific genres, namely sci fi, fantasy, and action. But even so, that's a pretty big field, and sci fi and fantasy dont' necessarily require unobtainable special effects.

I know this site is primarily geared towards the technicals, and if you do manage to tell a good story, it's even better if it doesn't look like an amateur piece of crap, but honestly it's getting to the point that I'm much more entertained by an interesting story that looks like an amateur piece of crap, than a beautifully shot Hollywood looking snooze fest.

It's really a big turn around for me. I used to be much more enamored with "the look" and now that so many people have mastered "the look" it seems so unimportant compared to an interesting story.

[Fade to inferno]

Give us some plots that you have been working on that you think is a good idea. Or name some movies you like so we understand what you find interesting.

[Gillvane]

Give us some plots that you have been working on that you think is a good idea. Or name some movies you like so we understand what you find interesting.

I can critique some recent movies I've seen, although I know there's a big difference from a short and a feature.

Iron Man 2. Boring! All set up, and no story. Very disjointed, and failure to utilize some great characters! played by Scarlet Johansen and Mikey Rourke. We just start getting interested in those characters, then they start setting up something else, and the pay off wasn't very good for the set up.

Scarlet looked awesome, but even she couldn't save the boring script.






Prince of Persia. Very mediocre. Just way to Disney for me. A love story, where we only get one kiss at the very end of the movie, and a million fight scenes without a single drop of blood.

Kick Ass! Awesome! Action packed, cool characters, excellent timing of the Heroe's Journey!

Ondine. Fantastic under the radar film where Collin Farrel meets a Selkie. There are no outlandish special effects at all. The only shots you couldn't easily do are some underwater shots, and I say you couldn't do them because you probably dont' have an underwater housing for your camera. I won't give away the film, and you may not have heard of it:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1235796/

I recently watched White Out with Kate Bekinsale. It got lackluster reviews when it came out, but actually I thought it was entertaining. Ok, most of that was because I like Kate, but still I thought it was a pretty good movie.




Also liked the new episode of True Blood that just aired on HBO. Ok, part of that is because I like Anna Paquin, but still it was a good episode.

[No Handle]

And here I thought this was going to be a post about McKee's book called Story, which I'll continue to recommend highly.

Back on topic, I agree with the OP, preferring to watch a good story with run of the mill cinematography versus stunning visuals with little in the way of story. Since dslrs, and hd video in general, is still a fairly new offering for the masses, it could be that the gee whiz factor is still sorting itself out, to be followed by a renewed interest in storytelling. One can hope anyway.

If forced, I'd rather tell a great story poorly than a poor story expertly...

[Gillvane]

And here I thought this was going to be a post about McKee's book called Story... which I'll continue to recommend highly.

Back on topic, I agree with the OP, preferring to watch a good story with run of the mill cinematography versus stunning visuals with little in the way of story. Since dslrs, and hd video in general, is still a fairly new offering for the masses, it could be that the gee whiz factor is still sorting itself out, to be followed by a renewed interest in storytelling. One can hope anyway.

If forced, I'd rather tell a great story poorly than a poor story expertly...

It's also very subjective, and I certainly recognize that.

The Lifetime network does manage to stay in business, and I'm sure someone is watching it right now, completely engrossed in the story of whatever they are watching.

But everything on that network is going to bore me to tears.

It's not always "bad" story telling, but often a subjective interest in subject matter.

In other words, dramas aren't going to capture my attention no matter how well you tell the story.

Spice it up with some aliens, a laser gun, some magic, a dwarf from another dimension, a mystery, some Kung Fu!, SOMETHING for god's sake besides some people whining about something I could just as easily listen to in real life at McDonald's.

[KingDucky]

Spice it up with some aliens, a laser gun, some magic, a dwarf from another dimension, a mystery, some Kung Fu!, SOMETHING for god's sake besides some people whining about something I could just as easily listen to in real life at McDonald's.

YES!

[Lawrence189]

My new film has quite an interesting story, we have about 20mins runtime so far.
Bout a kid who wants to be a filmmaker so he attempts making films, but every time he starts a film a problem arises that doesn't allow him to continue. Much more entertaining then it sounds, its a comedy.

[pro-hobbyist]

Wow a film should have a good story? I never would have guessed!

What we really need to talk about is how to create/find a story that isn't total crap. Personally I sit down with my co-producer and talk about ideas for several hours, and then do it again the next week. We usually rip up the script several times before settling on a good one. It would be easier to 'buy' a script or make a film based on somebody else's story, but the problem is I like to write a script that makes 100% use of available resources but not requiring anything I can't provide. Like money. So if somebody hands me a script it may be a great story but if it requires filming from the top of the Space Needle we're going to have a problem.


Lawrence that sounds almost like my first movie Bill and Friend if anybody's seen it.

[Lawrence189]

Really? Dang I thought I was being original.

[1]

There's pretty much no such thing as a new, original story, which is the reason why this whole premise of "story, story, story" is a bit, well, wrong.

All you have to do is come up with a CLEVER & NEW way to tell an OLD story; that's all that's left anyway...

[Lawrence189]

That's true, like Avatar was a very generic storyline, surrounded by breath taking cgi and overwhelming enjoyable visuals. I haven't seen the move, just saying....

[1]

[Lawrence189]

Wow, what genius made this. Prime example.


video version apparently.

[KingDucky]

That's amazing Mal(And Lawrence). Avatar is also like The Last Samurai. Not as close as Pocahontas but still kinda the same.

[Gillvane]

There's pretty much no such thing as a new, original story, which is the reason why this whole premise of "story, story, story" is a bit, well, wrong.

All you have to do is come up with a CLEVER & NEW way to tell an OLD story; that's all that's left anyway...

I"m not sure we are disagreeing on anything. I said story, story, story!

I didn't say original, new, unique!

Most of the "stories" I see in short films are way to tame, and boring, and conventional.

[fotosafari]

Mal... that's a good one about AVATAR script.
Amazing. All those billions and Hollywood can't make anything original. Actually they can, but no one is interested. So, the blame goes to the people who see the movie, thus saying; Hollywood, we like the crap you making.... more please.

If there was money in original movies, they'd be doing it. They're not dummies.

[fotosafari]

[QUOTE=Gillvane;331878]I watch a lot of short films, just like you guys, and this revelation isn't anything new. QUOTE]

Ya know, am glad more people realize that story is important. What I noticed on sites like this one and Vimeo, ETC. that people are too 'in-love' with technology and pretty images. As you said, the images were great but lacked a story. Not sure if this audience (HV-20, Vimeo and the rest of the forums) is really into making a movie with a good story. Most of the discussions about tech stuff and equipment. I understand that, that's why people come here, to learn something. Very little discussions about story or how to make a good movie with a decent story. The other factor is that it's NOT EASY to come up with a good story and record it. Otherwise we'd have tons of good movies.... right?

However....
I saw a few short's that was clever and indeed had a story.
I also noticed that not many people were interested in those. Give you an example of this clever video that really surprised me at the end.
In fact the following link had no "like" or few people bother to watch it. The photography, lighting and the scene was superb.
So, I sent it out to a few friends and they liked it as well.
Check it out.


There are more good shorts out there, but ya gotta discover it, as I did.

[cgbier]

Beautiful!

I'm paraphrasing Master Hitchcock here:"Movie is life with the boring parts edited out"

[1]

What I noticed on sites like this one and Vimeo, ETC. that people are too 'in-love' with technology and pretty images.

Err, HELLO? LOTR???

Hour one:
"Frodo, here's a ring. Protect it."

Hour two:
"Let's go and look after the ring."

Hour three:
"We need to get the ring."

Hour four:
"Where's the ring?"

Hour five:
"Frodo, we must protect the ring."

....same thing for next 7 hours....

Come on!

This is not unique to these fora, pretty pictures and fanfare is what sells a TON of movies all the time.

Of course, I agree with you though, much of the good stuff doesn't get recognized.
We are, as a species, getting dumber and dumber after all!

[cgbier]

It also works in 40 minutes

Problem with LOTR is that the novel is already to long winded....

[Gillvane]

Err, HELLO? LOTR???

Hour one:
"Frodo, here's a ring. Protect it."

Hour two:
"Let's go and look after the ring."

Hour three:
"We need to get the ring."

Hour four:
"Where's the ring?"

Hour five:
"Frodo, we must protect the ring."

....same thing for next 7 hours....

Come on!

This is not unique to these fora, pretty pictures and fanfare is what sells a TON of movies all the time.

Of course, I agree with you though, much of the good stuff doesn't get recognized.
We are, as a species, getting dumber and dumber after all!

I think you and I are looking at things from a different perspective, but sort of ending at the same place.

I'm not saying I want unique or original stories. I'm saying I want a story that is not about Joe the Plumber losing his wrench and trying to find it, and that's what I see in a lot of shorts, instead of an Evil immortal force that loses a ring that controls Middle Earth, including Dwarves, Elves, Men, and Hobbits .

Yes, the basic STORY plot is the same. I lost something, now I need to find it. but I want a story about the fantastic and the unreal, not the everyday which I already live and breathe.

I'm more than happy to watch a story about something that was lost and needs to be found, over, and over again.

But not a story about how Jimmy the accountant lost his briefcase, and needs to find it before Mr. Finkle his boss needs the reports.

[Gillvane]

However....
I saw a few short's that was clever and indeed had a story.

It's pretty. The lighting is nice, even if it does look like natural lighting for the most part, and the actors are great. I thought the performances were very professional.

But this is what I call the "gotcha" short film. It really doesn't do much, except set you up for a little "gotcha". Aha! "Gotcha!" You didn't expect the ending!

It's good as far as that technique goes, but you can't do very much with it.

[HV40-GTA]

It's pretty. The lighting is nice, even if it does look like natural lighting for the most part, and the actors are great. I thought the performances were very professional.

I think lighting was natural for most of the part, if not entirely.
Very good actors.

But the SOUND! It is horrible. Sounds like watching a movie on an analog tv with badly tuned rabbit ears...
If I can hear noise in a vimeo video, and background noise goes up and down depending on the take, it clearly tells me that the "chapel noise" was not added in post-prod (as some ambient chapel sound) but it is just the original recording sound and nothing was done with the sound during editing.
It kills the whole film (otherwise very nice little short IMHO).
It is a "quiet" film, it shouldn't have left with sound as is.
I guess no one have listen to it on anything better than some crappy plastic computer speakers when they just added Chopin and finalize it

[cgbier]

It was Beethoven...

[HV40-GTA]

It was Beethoven...

OK... I'm not a fan either