PC or Mac?

[bluespoet]

I challenge any pc dude to find me an app as good as FCE for the same price :-P

ok you have no 24p functionality , but there ain't such thing either on under300 buck stuff out there hehe

For those of us that have used both FCP and Sony Vegas, clearly FCP is inferior in many ways. I am not saying that FCP is a bad program. FCP cost about 400% more than Sony Vegas yet is inferior in these ways that I know of:

It has inferior audio tools by comparison. If 70% of video is audio than having to purchase Logic and learn a new interface is needed, just to do with what Vegas does out of the box.

Vegas has better compositing tools. Neither Vegas nor FCP have the capability of Boris Red or Adobe After Effects. The tools in Vegas will carry many people a long way.

Sony Vegas is the most intuitive and easiest program to use. This translates in productivity.

I will give FCP kudos for multi tasking, but I for one when I am editing am focused on that task. I do not need to surf the net and chat while editing.

Sony Vegas functions well on an older and more modest machine and functions fantastic on a newer capable machine. So when you "upgrade" to FCP it is likely the machine you have will not function.

FCP needs a video acclerator card where as vegas does not. The advantage is that you have real time viewing of effects, the disadvantage is that it adds another thousand dollar cost for the card, in addition to the thousand dollar Logic for sound editing. Vegas works without the video accl card has near real time review of effects and works fine for me.

I am not at all saying that FCP is a bad program, it is a great expensive program, but when compared to Sony Vegas, it cost thousands more, is more difficult to use and is inferior in capability. It does however work on a Mac and if you have Mac it is well worth considering.

[cgbier]

Why would you need an accelerator card?
I (having worked with both, too) wouldn't say one is better than the other. They are simply different with different weaknesses and strengths.
Modest machine? We still have G4 towers in the studio working with FCS. Of course, they don't won't do much in Color or Motion, but there still are some tasks you can trow on them.... and they are a nice addition to our render farm.
Why Logic? Logic is for music producers. For video production, Soundtrack has all the tools you ever need.

Intuitivity and ease of use are highly subjective. For me, FCS is easier to use, but YMMV.

[Bob Sanders]

I (having worked with both, too) wouldn't say one is better than the other. They are simply different with different weaknesses and strengths. .

I would tend to agree to a certain extent. I think it depends on exactly what you're working with. Mike Jones did a comparison write up on the 2 programs and in a nutshell he deduced that there is no question Vegas is better for digital video work. It'll run circles around FCP in that respect. However FCP is better at working in film.

I think a more interesting (and relative) comparison would be Avid MC and FCP. One of the reasons FCP went on the upswing in the first place was because Avid got a tad too big for its britches and stopped listening to the customer's needs.

That has changed massively and Avid has gone to great extents to show this.... and people are beginning to see it. These days for example, you can correspond on the Avid boards directly with the CEO of Avid (granted she not exactly on the boards every day.... busy person and all)...and now it looks like the new MC5 is going to be a serious hit for Avid (MC also happens to work on BOTH pc and mac).

Meanwhile, the frustration level is clearly growing with Apple and FCP. There have been no major changes or upgrades in FCP in quite some time and it Appears Apple is now taking the same track as Avid once did in not caring too much about the customer's needs.

FCP complaint threads like the following are becoming more and more common (while precisely the opposite is happening with Avid).

http://ace-filmeditors.blogspot.com/...ut-for-me.html

[cgbier]

It'll run circles around FCP in that respect. However FCP is better at working in film.

I'm not sure about the circle running, but that FCP is better for film is definitively true. This is based on FCP's roots which are still there.
Color, for example, is meant to color grade film. For "video", and especially broadcast, the color wheels in FCP are absolutely sufficient.

The fight between Avid and FCP has a long tradition. I only have looked at Avid shortly. All I can see is that it is the same as the Mac vs. PC discussion: If you reduce the soft- and hardware to what it actually is - a tool - then there can't be a better or worse. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. You choose the tool that gets your job done (or you can afford).

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

It has inferior audio tools by comparison. If 70% of video is audio than having to purchase Logic and learn a new interface is needed, just to do with what Vegas does out of the box.

no Soundtrack Pro on your FCS?

hmmmm ARRR ARRR it seems we have another one, captain! :-P


soundtrack pro kicks the buttocks away of ANY nle-included audio tools, but of course you need to have FCS ;-) (which we assume you do, since you use FCP)

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

For those of us that have used both FCP and Sony Vegas, clearly FCP is inferior in many ways.

FYI, I have used extensively:

- Vegas pro 8 and 9

- Adobe premiere pro CS4

- Pinnacle Studio

....

and then I met MRS. FINAL CUT STUDIO 2 ;-) I'm in love


what can I say, I've been around the buffet and now I know exactly what I like , as Cgbier clearly pointed out, it's UP TO EACH PERSON

to decide which NLE or post-production suite is the best for him/her/them

[Bob Sanders]

soundtrack pro kicks the buttocks away of ANY nle-included audio tools, but of course you need to have FCS ;-) (which we assume you do, since you use FCP)

Well that's not exactly integrated. But if you want to talk about separate audio apps for video.... then you obviously haven't tried Avid's Pro Tools

http://www.avid.com/US/products/family/Pro-Tools

[cgbier]

Pro Tools has been THE software for audio creation for years, but not everybody needs it. Horses for courses...

[Erik Bien]

... and IIRC, Vegas originally started out as audio editing software, with the video functionality added later.

[cgbier]

Yep, purchased by Sony

[HueyNRolf]

Well that's not exactly integrated.

Well of course, you've never used it. But it's very well integrated. I can send an audio clip or entire sequence to soundtrack pro with a right click, do what needs done and save back to FCP. In fact all the apps in FCS integrate well.
Combine this with FinalCut Server and you can understand why it's popular with not just the film industry but video production houses too.

[Bob Sanders]

But it's very well integrated.

It's a separate app. I can send an entire sequence from Vegas to adobe audition with a right click and back.... same thing

[HueyNRolf]

It's a separate app.

Which means I can use it to work on audio only projects without having to run FCP in the background.
You don't think that one person does everything in a production house? A team collaborates one guy doing sound another does the color grading etc. Makes perfect sense to have a suite of separate apps. which integrate well together.

[Bob Sanders]

Which means I can use it to work on audio only projects without having to run FCP in the background.

FCP isn't set up to run audio-only projects. Vegas is.

[HueyNRolf]

I don't know why I bother, but OK.

YOU wrote

It's a separate app.

I wrote

Which means I can use it to work on audio only projects without having to run FCP in the background.
You don't think that one person does everything in a production house? A team collaborates one guy doing sound another does the color grading etc. Makes perfect sense to have a suite of separate apps. which integrate well together.

So if you define what it you were referring to, perhaps we can uncross the wires here.

[Bob Sanders]

we can uncross the wires here.

Wires were crossed some time ago and it has little to do with you.... well... until you responded to my post anyway. I was actually speaking to LOGOS.

[Bob Sanders]

You don't think that one person does everything in a production house?

No. Of course not.
Which is why FCP (and MC) are better with film.
Film is handled on more of a segregated level. Audio and video are handled as 2 separate entities... which is why products like FCP... MC don't need quality built-in audio control.

Digital video however is more often than not, handled as a whole... a concept that Mike Jones Looked at while comparing FCP with Vegas. Vegas is set up to handle video as a whole.

[HueyNRolf]

But you quoted me in post #37 and #39. Seems more like you got confused.

[HueyNRolf]

which is why products like FCP... MC don't need quality built-in audio control.

FCP is only part of FCS. Soundtrack Pro (which comes with it) handles more complex audio tasks. How many more times?

[Bob Sanders]

But you quoted me in post #37 and #39.

Only because you quoted me.

Bluepoet was comparing Vegas's superior audio abilities to FCP, and LOGOS came in and started talking about a separate audio app (which I pointed out that it was separate).... then you all of a sudden decided to jump in on some tangent.

[Bob Sanders]

FCP is only part of FCS. Soundtrack Pro (which comes with it) handles more complex audio tasks. How many more times?

Once again, it's a separate app and you require FCS to gain that app. I can pair up Vegas with a separate app of my choice and work it all the same way.

[HueyNRolf]

You can't buy FCP on its own.
FCP is part of FCS, a suite of video production apps.

The apps are separate to suit the workflow of a production house where different people work on different aspects of the production.

See if you can make it to the end of this video without throwing your shoe at the screen.

http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/#eurorscg

[Bob Sanders]

you can't buy fcp on its own.
fcp is part of fcs, a suite of video production apps.

you require a separate app to accomplish these things in fcp.

Fcp can't do what vegas can on its own. I can also pair up vages with another separate app if i wish and accomplish what your stating. I can pair up vegas with pro tools if i wish and work it the same as fcp.

Vegas can do full audio internally or externally.vegas can also function as a full audio only app.

[HueyNRolf]

Bob it's FINAL CUT STUDIO. So Sony Vegas is better because all the tools are in one app?By your logic a swiss army knife is better than a set of chief's knifes.

So production houses use Sony Vegas? Is there a Sony Vegas server?

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

ok , they're all separated apps, so what?

that's NOT the point I was referring to :

"find me a suite with the apps of FCS on the same price range or less"

that's it

of course a good production suite can handle video and audio, but that will cost more.

And seriously, Vegas as a standalone APP is no way near FCS... that's what the other dude said lol

"vegas alone can handle audio better than FCS" he said

to which I replied that "how come you don't have soundtrack pro on your FCS?"


:-P

that's all folks

P.S.: what about an app like COLOR 1.5 ? is there such thing for under 5,000 bucks in the market...?

hmmm dunno

and that's because there is a little interesting story about how apple got it ;-)

( it used to be a pro app , apple bought it and shoved it into FCS for the benefit of us, customers hehe)


yeah, apple is "evil" ;-)