PC or Mac?

[cylomicronman]

Hey everyone. I don't know if this is the right thread to post under. I didn't want to post under the pc or mac editing forum cause I figured the replies would be biased. I'm thinking of getting a new computer. Right now I have a first generation macbook from four years ago with a ram upgrade. I edit on fc express 3.5 at home and fc pro at school. I have an hv30 that i plan on using for at least another few years.
I'm thinking of getting a desktop pc rahter than an imac or mac pro and learning to use adobe or vegas since it seems like you get the same performance for less money. I'm not looking to do any fancy graphics stuff I dabble in AE but I mostly want a system that can handle general editing for big HD projects reliably and quickly.
Suggestions?

[50chevy]

Doing both is also an option with one machine. Build a pc with MAC os compatible parts. Will be as fast and powerfull for less $$

Can install 2 drives, one for windows and one for mac os.

Then can boot to either. If you decide you like one over the other can stick with your preference. There both just tools to get a job done.

Adobe products are easy to work on cross platform (mac or pc) vs the apple products are mac only.

I found that is the most cost effective solution if you want (or need both)

Here is a comparision of costs and performance of buying a mac pro vs building your own (hackintosh).
http://hishamkhalifa.com/?p=243

If your already used to a mac and the $$ is keeping you away then this is the cost
effective option.

Local craigslist has prebuilt hackintosh with warranty, if not the computer savvy type.

Hope that helps.

[cylomicronman]

cool thanks
I'm considering this. Do you have one?
I found this site and was thinking of following this guys build. http://lifehacker.com/5351485/how-to...tart-to-finish

[50chevy]

cool thanks
I'm considering this. Do you have one?
I found this site and was thinking of following this guys build. http://lifehacker.com/5351485/how-to...tart-to-finish

Yes I built one. That lifehacker article is little bit older so you can build a system for less with similar specs or go for a 8 core system for 1000-1500 (depending on specs). I kinda follow the i7 dream build but went with a cheaper motherboard. New one came out for less $$ with the ability to run 12GB ram. So since computer technology improves quickly you can get parts that are not the latest and greatest for alittle less $$.

I shopped around and compared between a similar spec to the lifehacker article and then compared to a i7 8 core build (equivalent to a mac pro).

7-800 (dual core) vs 1000-1500. (i7 8 core) Both can be built for less or more. Depend on where you buy.


I am using a imac dual core at a school and windows/linux at home. So I wanted to be able to do school work at home. Then figured it was worth the extra few hundred to get the faster system.

I also then upgraded to a ssd drive for the os drive. Wow worth it.

Quick spec, You can go with lower spec parts for less $$. I wanted the ability to overclock if I wanted)
Intel i7 930 Processor ($299)
Gigabyte GA-EX58A-UD3R Motherboard, supports up to 12GB ram($209)
6 GB 1600mhz Corsair Dominator RAM($220)
1GB GT250 Video Card ($100)
Kingston SSD 64GB Hard Drive ($150.00)
2 Seagate Barracuda 1TB drives ($152.00)
Already had DVD Burner (70.00) Case ($70-100+), Power Supply (80-100.00), dual 23" Samsung 2333 LCD ($400.00)

$18-1900.00 build to buy it all from scratch (including tax dual monitors) but I kinda went overboard. I already had a system just upgraded the internals for 1k. Again newegg or amazon you can get better prices. I got most all the stuff at local computer store. (frys)

Here is the newer version of the lifehacker article
http://lifehacker.com/5360150/instal...cking-required

I agree if you are used to mac I would stick with one.

Can save some $$ and can build a similar or faster system to a imac or mac pro (internally) with more ability to expand for less $$.

The system has firewire esata, usb 3.0 etc. All the posts work and the nice thing is the esata is same speed as a internal drive. not sure if you get this feature on a mac pro. Also when and if usb3 is available on mac then do a software update.

Sorry for the long post, hope that helps. If you need some specs ironed out, happy to help.

[bmsweb]

I'm actually thinking of building one too. I've been running one of my Laptops as a Mac and it's growing on me

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

for internet (and we all know internet is for porn lol) = PC all the way

for editing = MAC till death ! :-P lolz

[cgbier]

If you are using Mac at school (what kind?) you should stick with OS X (iMac or PC). Makes life easier for you.
I was editing in Vegas or Open Movie at home, FCP at work. Was a lot of hassle sometimes to take work home. Bought a Mac - problems solved.

[debuys]

This is the right answer.

If you are using Mac at school (what kind?) you should stick with OS X (iMac or PC). Makes life easier for you.
I was editing in Vegas or Open Movie at home, FCP at work. Was a lot of hassle sometimes to take work home. Bought a Mac - problems solved.

People can argue for the superiority or value of one platform over another but if you live in a practical world go for continuity between work and home.

[cylomicronman]

that was sort of misleading since I'm graduating in a week and will no longer be using school computers. But it would be nice to be able to use my laptop on the go and transfer stuff to a desktop.

[cylomicronman]

cool thanks for all the help
I am going to attempt to do this but I really don't know much about computers and I've been consulting a few friends for advice. I looked at the OSx86 project website and what some people had posted on youtube in addition to the lifehacker site. I got the impression that you have to know what your doing (which I don't) to get an i7 or i5 to work . In the interest of simplicity I thought I would go with the build outlined in the article even if it is a little out of date since its been tested and it looked like something I could actually handle. I also don't need the worlds most powerful computer. I don't mind editing on my four year old macbook so any upgrade should satisfy my needs. I was relying on the old article for the parts list only and did see the newer article which dealt with installing the OS.The closest thing I've ever done to building a computer was to build a bike and I remember how much trouble that was! But I would like to hear what substitutions or additions you would recommend without spending too much more money.

[50chevy]

TO be more specific, What I meant about the lifehacker build article is if you click on the links for the hardware you will see the parts are not available on new egg anymore. So you may not be able to get the exact specs.

I had it bookmarked (lifehacker article) for some time. My the time I went to go purchase and get going the parts were not available. So had to start researching again.

The lifehacker article also recommends a dual core processor that costs 329.99 which is more than the i7 930 cost. You could go with a lower spec cost processor. I would also not get the network card. Built in gigabyte network card works.

So I would shop around choose available parts and price compare.

i7 costs more for motherboard and RAM. So for extra 200.00 is hard to not go i7.
Make more sense?

Just as easy to do with i7 or dual core. My first system was i7 then built a dual core for a friend. Just make sure the hardware you use is supported and your pretty set. That is why I went with gigabyte motherboard. MSI, asus brands of motherboards also seem to be supported. Also make sure you get a motherboard with firewire. Lifehacker does recommend a gigabyte motherboard. (but is not a current model)

The hardware you choose is what can make things more difficult.

Many youtube videos showing the steps.

Basic steps for empire efi + retail snow leopard:
I like empire EFI, download, make CD, boot to it.
Remove empire EFI, Stick in Snow leopard, then install.
Re-boot to empire efi, install myhack.
Which makes the drive bootable to snow leopard, without empire EFI CD.
Install kexts (if needed to get audio/other devices working)

To cut costs you do not need a SSD drive.

Another easy way to get up and running is kakewalk
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/ind...owtopic=195248

Supports gigabyte motherboards. You can also see the list in order to choose an available motherboard that is compatible.

[cgbier]

Chevy, are there any reports out about hardcore Motion editing with them Hackintoshs? I've been sitting on the fence for quite a while if I should build one...

Auntie Edith is asking if AJA Kona cards will work with these machines.

[Ratfink]

The problem with the hackintoshes is that a in the OS can render the loader incompatible. The ball is totally in apple's court. And even at the best of times they have some major stability and performance issues.

A hackintosh is only a good value if your time is worth absolutely nothing. If you plan on doing serious work or making money doing this, you are better off with the real deal and the support that comes with it.

[50chevy]

Reliability is something I hear concerns about, but have not experienced. A hard drive was defective and broke. But that is not hackintosh related. Had drives fail on windows and mac is inevitable.

For backup, I do run time machine and super duper, takes less than an hour to restore os and applications if a hard drive were to crash. I can also boot to the backup drive if I needed to do some work in a hurry, rather than restore the drive. (never could do that with windows, unless spent big $$ on ghost setup)

cgbier, I can tell the rendering difference between the schools machines and my hackintosh. I got more ram and faster processor to be fair to the schools machine. After effects, FCP3. I do not play with anything more serious than that. Odds are if there is a mac driver for the hardware it will work. My spyder pro I purchased for pc work with the mac os drivers. I also run a mac keyboard.

Here are some some benchmarking results. Note the fastest contenders are... hackintoshes.

http://db.xbench.com/comparesubindex...minVersion=1.3

Hey Ratfink. this hackintosh has some serious performance issues. lol
i7 930 @ 4.2Ghz Hackintosh on an SSD opening 56 apps in 7 seconds. (SL 10.6.3)


I already spent around 6k on top of the line mac before. if I had this option before I would have done it. My machine has not crashed or has the spinning disc of death. I often get crashes on the school's "real mac". Some people just get lucky I guess.

Some people do not know of this option and I wish I did before I plunked down the cash for a mac to edit video.

Switching to a pc to save $$ ok make sense, but why not still run the os and programs you like?

I am excited cause I got a mac and it works, otherwise I would still be saving $$ for one. It's not stopping me from making $$ either. Is my main system.

Not for everyone maybe, but neither is windows or linux.

[HueyNRolf]

Attractive as a Hackintosh is, I decided against doing it for fear of what might happen a year down the road.

[cgbier]

One year down? I write my computers off within 5 years...

Chevy last question: Anyone ever built an 8-core?

[50chevy]

Chevy last question: Anyone ever built an 8-core?

Yes, The system I built is a 8-core. Attached is a screen shot of istat menus showing the 8 cores.

About this mac shows 2.8 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon, 6GB 1600mhz ddr3.

I don't need no sticking accelerator card. FCP3 after effects, adobe CS4 suite all works great.

In all fairness adobe suite is in line with FCS. FCS may even be a better deal, with all the apps it comes with for 1k. Vs just premeire or AE for 1k from adobe.

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

I don't need no sticking accelerator card.

rlly? 'cause I'm pretty sure you need it for COLOR and motion...

In all fairness adobe suite is in line with FCS. FCS may even be a better deal, with all the apps it comes with for 1k. Vs just premeire or AE for 1k from adobe.

... and here's where I realize you haven't used Color yet, otherwise you wouldn't be saying that FCS is in line with adobe's suite. Show me something like COLOR in a production suite of equal or lower price than FCS... I haven't found it yet.

(actually the story of How apple got COLOR into FCS is quite interesting, if you want to know about it I can tell ya later)

anyway, people should buy and use what they like... :-) they're all great tools

[dearcatastrophe]

Yes, The system I built is a 8-core. Attached is a screen shot of istat menus showing the 8 cores.

About this mac shows 2.8 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon, 6GB 1600mhz ddr3.

I don't need no sticking accelerator card. FCP3 after effects, adobe CS4 suite all works great.

In all fairness adobe suite is in line with FCS. FCS may even be a better deal, with all the apps it comes with for 1k. Vs just premeire or AE for 1k from adobe.

it's actually 4 core, but looks like 8 core because of hyperthreading on each core.
there is not an 8 core cpu yet available, the best you can do is 6 true cores.

[fayskelley]

Yes, The system I built is a 8-core. Attached is a screen shot of istat menus showing the 8 cores.

About this mac shows 2.8 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon, 6GB 1600mhz ddr3.

I don't need no sticking accelerator card. FCP3 after effects, adobe CS4 suite all works great.

In all fairness adobe suite is in line with FCS. FCS may even be a better deal, with all the apps it comes with for 1k. Vs just premeire or AE for 1k from adobe.

Nice capture on your desktop ... where'd you take that?

[bluespoet]

Really it depends on your budget. Using a Mac means that you will have thousands invested in software.

The fact is to just equal the capability of sony vegas. The Mac users have to buy, Logic, Final Cut Pro, An accelerator card.

so you spend $400 for sony vegas or

Final Cut Pro $1200
Logic $800 (last time I checked)
Accelerator card $1000

Now if you to have to ask the question mac or pc, the likely your wallet will be happier with the pc. There are so many great audio efx, synths video programs for free for the pc. If I need just about anything, I can get it for free.

If I were starting a business and had $10,000 then I would seriously consider a Mac. The Mac in hardware and software is not a good value. It is however good quality.

The PC is also good quality. Sony vegas has the advantage of not needing the video accl card and running on more modest computers.

For my part I love using one program that replaces many programs in the Mac

[Dr. Benway]

Using a Mac means that you will have thousands invested in software. Mac users have to buy...

Not necessarily. I agree that the software Apple includes 'for free' is mostly garbage. They market their machines at pros and yuppies. A pro will buy FCS, Logic or whatever. A yuppie will love iPhoto and iMovie - they'll be 'creative' within minutes.

For the rest of us using Mac we do need to upgrade to FCS if we are edit multi track and the rest of it. However, software for Mac needn't cost an arm and a leg.

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

For the rest of us using Mac we do need to upgrade to FCS if we are edit multi track and the rest of it. However, software for Mac needn't cost an arm and a leg.

I challenge any pc dude to find me an app as good as FCE for the same price :-P

ok you have no 24p functionality , but there ain't such thing either on under300 buck stuff out there hehe

[bluespoet]

I challenge any pc dude to find me an app as good as FCE for the same price :-P

ok you have no 24p functionality , but there ain't such thing either on under300 buck stuff out there hehe

For those of us that have used both FCP and Sony Vegas, clearly FCP is inferior in many ways. I am not saying that FCP is a bad program. FCP cost about 400% more than Sony Vegas yet is inferior in these ways that I know of:

It has inferior audio tools by comparison. If 70% of video is audio than having to purchase Logic and learn a new interface is needed, just to do with what Vegas does out of the box.

Vegas has better compositing tools. Neither Vegas nor FCP have the capability of Boris Red or Adobe After Effects. The tools in Vegas will carry many people a long way.

Sony Vegas is the most intuitive and easiest program to use. This translates in productivity.

I will give FCP kudos for multi tasking, but I for one when I am editing am focused on that task. I do not need to surf the net and chat while editing.

Sony Vegas functions well on an older and more modest machine and functions fantastic on a newer capable machine. So when you "upgrade" to FCP it is likely the machine you have will not function.

FCP needs a video acclerator card where as vegas does not. The advantage is that you have real time viewing of effects, the disadvantage is that it adds another thousand dollar cost for the card, in addition to the thousand dollar Logic for sound editing. Vegas works without the video accl card has near real time review of effects and works fine for me.

I am not at all saying that FCP is a bad program, it is a great expensive program, but when compared to Sony Vegas, it cost thousands more, is more difficult to use and is inferior in capability. It does however work on a Mac and if you have Mac it is well worth considering.

[LOGOS PATHOS ETHOS]

It has inferior audio tools by comparison. If 70% of video is audio than having to purchase Logic and learn a new interface is needed, just to do with what Vegas does out of the box.

no Soundtrack Pro on your FCS?

hmmmm ARRR ARRR it seems we have another one, captain! :-P


soundtrack pro kicks the buttocks away of ANY nle-included audio tools, but of course you need to have FCS ;-) (which we assume you do, since you use FCP)