Maybe you have a good point there on the pull down stuff. I don't actually have any particular plans to record anything in the next month or so, and it does sound like NTSC is just unnecessary hassle. Perhaps I'd be better waiting until the New Year when the UK prices may have dropped another £50-£100.Originally Posted by RobPhoboS
Last edited by JiveTalker; 2007 December 4th at 11:01. Reason: typo
[QUOTE=2Bdecided;33418]
... Also, if you get a PAL TV in shot by accident (or intentionally) on an NTSC HV20, expect it to flicker and have horrible horizontal bands. With a PAL HV20, there would be no problem - you can film "off screen" very well.
...
Hi David,
I am sorry but I do not really understand why that is, or really what you mean, because further down you say that most modern pal TVs play back NTSC OK.
Is that only when you have the camera connected to the NTSC TV while videotaping?
Thanks
facts: I just bough an NTSC hv20 last week in New York at B&H, with the 150$ gift it cost 649$. The pal version here in spain with the current exchange is 1663$. Do you really think that any feature is 1000$ worth?
I have connected the HV20 to my hitachi 32PD5200 and I don't see any flicker. It looks superb
Actually if you want to convert hdv to sd you HAVE to do postprocesing so what's the problem doing pulldown or whatever? 2 o 3 more clicks?
[QUOTE=AHV20;35502]No, I didn't mean that.
If you live in a PAL country, you will have PAL TVs in your house. If one is switched on (showing a normal broadcast channel) when you are filming with your NTSC HV20, and you get the PAL TV "in shot", the image of the TV captured by the HV20 will sometimes be flickery. That's all.
Whereas a "PAL" HV20 can do a very good job "filming" off a "PAL" TV screen.
Cheers,
David.
$649 is about £325 at the moment. That's a very HD cheap camcorder. You can't even buy an HV20 used at that price in the UK! It's £543.20 new from Amazon, which is £100 less than I paid for mine earlier this year.
However, even at £25, I'm not tempted.
I bought an HV20 to capture my kids early years in the best picture quality available. I don't want all that footage stuck in the wrong format, having to be converted (slowly, inferior quality) whenever I want make compilations for the family
I've also owned Canon equipment before. I know I'm going to need that warranty!
Plus I have experience of "NTSC" to "PAL" frame-rate conversions. I know it can't be done perfectly, and doing it quite well either costs a lot of money, or takes a lot of time. I don't have either, so saving some money now is false economy. If you want 24p, it's OK, but I hate that look for family videos. Getting 50i from 60i should be a last resort option, not one you force upon yourself.
If the NTSC HV20 could be converted to PAL with a firmware update, they of course I'd buy one at £325! I'd buy a spare right now!
Cheers,
David.
Oh, I see! Thanks very much for the descriptive explanation (even I understand now what you already said before).
Hi David,
OK, but what if you left your HDV "NTSC" footage in the HDV format (which I think isn't really so much NTSC, it is just 60 fields / s like NTSC is, right?), and not converted it in any way to resemble PAL (down-convert to real SD PAL, or frame rate convert to 50i or something). In the future (or even right now if you already own the necessary equipment), couldn't you play your 60i "NTSC" HDV footage, burned onto a HD-DVD or Blue ray disks, on a HD TV in PAL land, just like 50i "PAL" HDV footage? The quality should be the same (maybe apart from potential higher compression artifacts in the "NTSC" footage).
If that is true, then I assume the conversion problem (hassle, time, quality) would be a very temporary issue (until you, or the recipients of your movies upgrade their TV / playback equipment).
OK, I forgot about the problem of flicker when filming under electric lights operated at a different frequency from the camera. But for someone like me, who lives in both worlds (NTSC, 60Hz and PAL, 50Hz), this is not an argument for either, pal cam or ntsc cam.
(There might be other folks out there like me.)
Last edited by AHV20; 2007 December 13th at 15:06.
You could watch it now, and other people could probably watch it in the future.
I don't know about HD-DVD and BluRay, but on DVD, you can't mix 50Hz and 60Hz content on the same disc. You can mix 16:9 and 4:3, but not 50Hz and 60Hz. You can't mix 50Hz and 60Hz in any broadcast environment, or any video editor. So you basically need to pick a format and stick with it.
If I get an "NTSC" HV20 now, do I have to _keep_ buying 60Hz camcorders from the USA so I can easily make a single format complilation to embarass my son on his wedding day in 20 years time? Or do I go back to "PAL" HDV later?
I'm sure it'll work for some people. Myself, I have "home movies" on VHS, S-VHS, "PAL" miniDV, "PAL" HDV, plus 160x120 320x240 640x480 15fps 30fps and 60fps M-JPEG files from digital still cameras. It's the M-JPEG files that often get encoded and emailed, but rarely get put onto DVD because the frame rate conversion is such a pain. I don't need yet another format. (If there was a good digital still camera that would switch to 25 or 50fps, I would buy it!)
Cheers,
David.
Buy PAL. I read somewhere that the U.S. is due to get with the program and switch formats. Seriously, what are you hearing in the States regarding this rumour, any rumblings?
Buy PAL, the U.S. is going that way, NTSC may soon be a relic of the past.
You have misunderstood something somewhere. The USA is not switching to PAL, or even a 50Hz HD format.
Cheers,
David.
Dear people,
I'm from Romania (Hi, I'm PAL
I am MOSTLY buying it for it's an accesible HD camera, althought I'm mostly gonna use it online. I also wanna shoot some script movies and such, for a site I own, but they'll be uploaded on Youtube or similar services.
Althought the video quality will aready be a little fucked up, due to the online compression, the difference will still be huge from a normal camcorder, 'cause HV20 is awesome, as we all know...
Some movies will be available for download, but still - for computer viewing.
In this case, do I care about the whole NTSC/PAL issue? (except the pulldown hassle and everything, which I've read on the respective thread that it's not TOO much of a neurosurgeon activity)
can you play pal tapes in a NTSC hv20i
PAL or NTSC???
This question seems to have asked a few times but I am still confused as I thought once in the HD world of 1080i/p PAL/NTSC did not matter.
Since I live in a PAL country, but have a 1080p HDTV and will edit on a PC/Mac does it matter?
I thought both PAL/NTSC cams did 24p? But it seems this is not the case...why is 25p easier to work with than 24p when Hollywood shoots in 24p?
PAL/NTSC Hd video will play with no problems on a HD TV via the HDMI input, problems arise when editing the footage, if you wish to edit and view all your footage in the NTSC HD format then again no problem but if you should ever wish to burn SD DVD's for playback on PAL equipment then you will have trouble.
AS an example you may at some time want to record your footage direct to a DVD recorder via the firewire output or AV out, unless your equipment is NTSC capable then this function is usless to you.
You may also at some time in the future upgrade your camcorder, if you live in PAL land then it may be a PAL cam that you buy, all your previous NTSC footage will be incompatable.
If you live in PAL land stick to PAL, it will save a lot of grief
I'm merging this thread to this one
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=3580
Maybe i`m wrong - but in hdv isn`t it equal? its 1080i @ 60fps (on my hv10) or is there a 50 fps mode on the pal-hv20? most of us are editing their videos on pc and then the main problem for pal-dvds is the framerate - or isn`t it? if i create a standard pal dvd for my friends the missing frames are the problem. so i make ntsc dvds - but for my friends only. for me i make blu-ray or hd-dvd. and for this both versions should fit.
Ialam,
PAL HV20 records HDV (1080x1440) in 50i, not in 60i like the NTSC HV20!
swifty,
no, unfortunately, you cannot play a PAL recorded tape with the NTSC HV20 cam. I am not 100% sure about a PAL tape recorded specifically in HDV standard with a HV20 PAL cam (although I doubt it will work). But what I do know for a fact is that you cannot play a PAL SD tape with the NTSC HV20 cam. I tried it!
Now, this is not to advertise Sony cams, but I do know for a fact that many NTSC Sonys do play PAL recorded tapes without problem! I tested it myself with a SD Sony cam (don't remember the model, but it was a cheapo), and I also tested it with the Sony HDR HC7.
I'm wondering if you bought the HV20 from pricejapan? I'm living at S.E.A too and very much intestered in getting a HV20 from there.
Doesn't 60i looks a bit soother compared to 50i? When it comes to HDV the resolution is same for both PAL and NTSC after all except the framerate, right?
Is it seperate DV pal tapes and DV NTSC tapes?
I live in a PAL contery, can I get tapes for USA for my cam?
Gear:
-Hv20 PAL -Rode VideoMic -FCS2
"Is it seperate DV pal tapes and DV NTSC tapes?"
If you mean blank tapes, then blank tapes are neither PAL nor NTSC, they're just blank.
The format is given to the tapes by the recording device, PAL or NTSC.
veg.
veg: great, then I can get blank tapes from USA (cheeper than here in norway)
Gear:
-Hv20 PAL -Rode VideoMic -FCS2
Yup! (you can get anything, anywhere cheaper than Norway!!!!)
It's rather hard to see the difference. Some people claim to be able to. It's nothing like the 24p/60i difference.
Yes. The datarate is the same too, which means the "NTSC" version tries to fit 20% more data into the same space - or, to put it another way, the MPEG-2 artefacts might be 20% worse on the "NTSC" version.When it comes to HDV the resolution is same for both PAL and NTSC after all except the framerate, right?
Cheers,
David.
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