NTSC vs PAL

[cgbier]

Doe het maar. In the long run, you will be happier with a PAL recorder in PAL land.

[rick_au]

hi everyone,

looking at a hv20 on ebay at the moment looks good the only problem is that it is NTSC and Iam in Australia. If i wanted to burn a dvd would it be an issue? i would intend to shoot in 24p

[corass]

Hi there,
please anwser me shortly:
can I capture tapes recorded in HDV 50i (PAL) via HV30 NTSC?
My PAL camcorder had broken firewire so i look for cheap device which I can capture my footage. I found cheap HV30 but wondering would it work?

[Daniel Rutter]

Short answer: No.

[janz]

what problems can i get when i buy NTSC in a pal country , if i dont want to playback the video on TV.
Mostly on computer.

[Janke]

Check the firmware hack thread - I think you can change a HV30 from PAL to NTSC, IIRC...

[affengeil]

Hello! I wanted to post this as a reply in another thread, but found it to be more suitable here. I was looking for a used HV30. Of course the one I found was an NTSC model. I live in a PAL country.

Not trying to like stop you from getting this cam, but getting an NTSC camera if you live in PAL land is usually avoided. You will have major issues if you plan on doing anything with the footage.

Good luck with the sale, this is a steal!

-Hunter

Yes, isn't it funny? Just yesterday I read in a thread about NTSC folk specifically looking for PAL camcorders to have an easier workflow in post. Now I do have the understanding that in my country television broadcasts occur at 50Hz (interlaced). 25 frames progressive being the natural counterpart for this. Where all this really matters is the type of distribution I am planning to use, correct? Interlaced displays are not my primary target, and even if I were to author my work on a DVD, the DVD specification supports 24p (native; requiring inverse telecine to be used for extracting true 24p out of the 24p-over-60i container) leaving the interlacing work to be done by the DVD player itself. My primary target is Vimeo / YouTube, et cetera. On the Web nothing particularly about framerates really matters as all information will be processed as progressive (versus interlaced) anyway. Therefore editing the footage in post makes no difference whether the material is NTSC or PAL encoded. What matters is the raw picture information itself. An advantage when buying a (Canon) NTSC camcorder over a PAL model is the added flexibility in framerates the camcorder can record at. With European models you have a single progressive recording option, which is 25p (Cinema mode being no different). NTSC models allow for either 30p Progressive or 24p Cinema framerates to be used for recording. Both have interesting benefits; the 30p Progressive mode will allow for more fluid motion in a progressive container versus 25p for PAL models. 24p Cinema (the overhyped marketing gimmick) has the benefit that in case I must distribute my work for both NTSC and PAL markets, the telecine process to do so is fairly simple in both occasions (with pulldown for NTSC being slightly more complex). The process to convert PAL material to NTSC (25p to 30p) however requires an even more complex pulldown technique to be used; 2:2:3:2:3. Compare this to 2:3 pulldown used for 24p footage to display at NTSC framerate. So actually, if you do your homework well, there are many things to consider besides your home country. In my case this equals an NTSC camcorder is better suited for my work as I require to record fast paced action in a progressive signal; the 30p Progressive option is perfect for this purpose.

Peace,
affengeil

[surista]

Even shooting in the default "HDV mode" - you will have problems trying to view the HDMI output from a NTSC HV30 on a PAL 1080P Hi Def Monitor/ TV.

Well, n=1 here, but I bought an NTSC HV20 when I was living in Tokyo a couple of years ago. I have zero problems viewing footage recorded in any mode on my HD TV here in London.

Haven't burned anything to DVD yet tho; everything I do is pretty much for my PC/blog/youtube etc.

[libertarian]

I have been digging on the web and in this thread and so far have been unable to find a clear answer to the following issue. I am located in the EU - so PAL system. I have an NTSC HD camcorder which records in AVCHD format at 1080i and a Full HD HDTV. Now, when playing back recordings from the camcorder's HDD via HDMI on my PAL HDTV, am I suffering any video quality loss?

[Janke]

when playing back recordings from the camcorder's HDD via HDMI on my PAL HDTV, am I suffering any video quality loss?

You shouldn't, unless your HDTV cannot handle 1080i60. Mine* can - I just tested with a 550D. If your HDTV has an "info" button on the reomte, try it. Mine says 1080 60 Hz when I press it. Be sure to set the camcorders output to HD, not SD, though...

* 32" LG full-HD.

[libertarian]

Thanks for the tip - BTW mine is also an LG and yes, it also handles the signal. So that's good news, but now please tell me if the same is the case with today's Blue Ray players in Europe? And DVD players, which for a time will still be in most homes? Do they usually handle NTSC too? It would be great to just record a BD without any conversion and quality compromise. I am thinking of getting the Cyberlink PowerDirector Ultra - any comments and suggestions about software are welcome. I could still return the NTSC camera and look for a PAL one if it really mattered. But if there is no real need for that, I might as well stick to it.

[Janke]

I don't have Blu-ray, but my PAL DVD players do show NTSC DVDs. However, some players may block playing if the disk has the "wrong" region code. Most stand-alone players can be hacked to ignore region codes, using the remote, if you know the key sequence - google is your friend.

PS: If your camcorder is a HV30, then you can hack it to PAL - this forum has all you need!

[robstowell]

You can change an hv20 from ntsc to pal too. Couldn't find a PAL model available at the time in NZ (kept getting outbid!), but bought an NTSC hv20 (plus wide angle, RVM and spare batteries ) for a very reasonable price as soon as I discovered it could be changed.
Bless that Jolly Roger- genius!

[scoubix]

The whole NTSC vs PAL debate is actually rather outdated nowadays when we consider digital HD TV. And it doesn't actually apply to HD footage, as PAL and NTSC are SD-only technologies. What really matters is framerate.
Any HD screen with HDMI input sold in Europe can handle BOTH 50i (European) and 60i (US) signals, as well as their progressive counterpart. It is a market requirement, so you will never find an HD screen that doesn't comply with 60i. 60i is a technical requirement for Blu-ray for instance: although blu-ray material is always encoded at 24p, it can be output to 60i/60p over HDMI to screens that do not support native 24p display.

If the footage needs to be delivered through DVD, then again it's not much of a problem: any Region 2 (that's Europe) DVD player handles PAL as well as NTSC DVDs. Why? Because Region 2 for DVDs also includes Japan, which is NTSC as well. So if a Region 2 DVD Player was not capable of playing NTSC discs, it would not be Region 2 compliant.

The only thing that could matter are CRT screens, if NTSC footage is to be shown on them, or if HD footage is downconverted to SD using the HVxx CVBS output. But again, most CRT screens sold over the past 15 to 20 years can handle NTSC video input...

[cgbier]

Scoubix, there's another issue: the AC frequency. If you shoot with an NTSC camera (60i) under artificial light in Europe (50Hz), you might get a lot of flicker in your picture. There are some workarounds with shutter speeds, but they might make your footage look even worse.

I wonder how Huey works with that issue in Japan, where they have both 50 and 60Hz.

[drapeama]

I wonder how Huey works with that issue in Japan, where they have both 50 and 60Hz.

Well, 50 or 60...if shooting low-light with 24p, does it really matters, as you can't really use high shutter speed to match the AC due to the low-light?

[Janke]

Shoot 24p in 50 Hz fluorescent light, and you've got a severe, slo-mo flickeroo...

[drapeama]

Shoot 24p in 50 Hz fluorescent light, and you've got a severe, slo-mo flickeroo...

I've probably badly worded it, Janke: if shooting at 24p in low-light, no matter if it's 50hz or 60hz as you can't really increase the shutter speed to a value that's a multiple of 24 & 50/60 (and you can't really get to 1/120 to accomodate 24p in low-light).