What's this about Media players and HD video?

[Jim E]

Up till now, I've assumed that if I want to view my HV40's high def footage in all its glory, I'll need to buy a blu-ray burner and burn my high def footage to a blu-ray disc.

But I'm hearing things about using Media Players to do the job. Unfortunately, I still haven't quite got the gist of it, so maybe someone will kindly fill in the gaps.

Is it the case that - I can download the high Def mini dv footage that I've shot with my HV40, to my computer, then save that footage as some kind of file, which can then be uploaded to one of those Media Players, which can be connected to my HD TV, just like my current DVD player is, and have that media player play that file as a High Def movie?

Well, is it?

[drapeama]

But I'm hearing things about using Media Players to do the job. Unfortunately, I still haven't quite got the gist of it, so maybe someone will kindly fill in the gaps.

Read it here, western digital has a good and well rated one.

[blondandfun]

This is more of a trendyish type question. Do a search on engadget.com.

[oddmanil]

Yoy may also burn AVC to a DVD, and watch on a Blue-ray player, or PS3.

[Jim E]

Read it here, western digital has a good and well rated one.

Interesting, Drape. From the video, it looked as if you have to connect your computer to the media player. From what I had heard, you could just save your home movie to an external HDD, (maybe as a HD video TS, if there's any such thing), and then connect that HDD containing the file to the media player - no need to lug the whole computer to your living room.

But that sounds a bit too easy to be true.

[Jim E]

Yoy may also burn AVC to a DVD, and watch on a Blue-ray player, or PS3.

But is AVC the same resolution as HD, 1080i?

[drapeama]

Yoy may also burn AVC to a DVD, and watch on a Blue-ray player, or PS3.

Not all player can handle AVCHD, but that's an option. That's what i do and it works fine, bitrate is limited to 18mbps compared to real bluray that set up to 40mbps. There's a thread i can point you to if you go that route.

Interesting, Drape...no need to lug the whole computer to your living room.

You can share your video to the network, and plug this device via Ethernet. That's what i think it's the best and most simple...

[drapeama]

But is AVC the same resolution as HD, 1080i?

Of course, 1080/24p if you want. The thread is this one. It works exactly as a bluray file structure, but you're only limited in space and bitrate.
Check in the whole thread, that's an interesting option. I've made a video form a trip to Québec last summer, 28minutes of video, average of 14mbps video and up to a 6ch PCM at 4608kbps + 6ch Dolby Digital at 640kbps audio or something very close to that. Sounds good, looks good...and cost less. I'm now using DVD+R DL so i got more space to allow higer video bitrate. Just PM me if you got more question.

[Jim E]

Great! Thanks, Drape!

[_Al_]

Is it the case that - I can download the high Def mini dv footage that I've shot with my HV40, to my computer, then save that footage as some kind of file, which can then be uploaded to one of those Media Players

All those players can play those m2t directly, so if editing software can render out as smart render (Vegas), basically you can see what you shoot, no need to render it to something else.

[Jim E]

All those players can play those m2t directly, so if editing software can render out as smart render (Vegas), basically you can see what you shoot, no need to render it to something else.

When you say, "render out as smart render", do you mean just save the captured footage from the HV40 as is? Like, just save it to an external hard drive as one big mpeg2 file, just as it came from the camera, (after editing of course)? And then connect that HD to a media player connected to my HD LCD TV?

If that's possible, that'd be brilliant!

[drapeama]

All those players can play those m2t directly...

It's like having media player 11 with ffdshow installed: it will play almost anything.

[_Al_]

When you say, "render out as smart render", do you mean just save the captured footage from the HV40 as is? Like, just save it to an external hard drive as one big mpeg2 file, just as it came from the camera, (after editing of course)? And then connect that HD to a media player connected to my HD LCD TV?

If that's possible, that'd be brilliant!

Yes,
but editing software have to be capable of smart render . Sony Vegas is. Render is set to HDV template (MainConcept, HDV) and while rendering it shows "No recompression required" and basically copies files, when it encounters part that must be rendered - changed parts with titles, effects, some cuts that destroy GOP perhaps - just renders HDV.

I capture to clips through HDVSplit, then just shuffle clips arround, its much more easier.

And of course media players play back m2t files directly captured to PC, as one long file.
As for clips, there could be a pause 1-2 seconds between them, played back from HDD. Over Ethernet that pause is longer, perhaps depends on the kind of player, WDTV Live could give even 10s pause between m2t clips over Ethernet. So to watch HDV videos is convenient to watch as one long m2t, rather than clips.

[Jim E]

Yes,
but editing software have to be capable of smart render . Sony Vegas is. Render is set to HDV template (MainConcept, HDV) and while rendering it shows "No recompression required" and basically copies files, when it encounters part that must be rendered - changed parts with titles, effects, some cuts that destroy GOP perhaps - just renders HDV.

I capture to clips through HDVSplit, then just shuffle clips arround, its much more easier.

Okay, so that means you can't add things like colour grading, composite effects, etc.? This is only for raw footage, albeit shuffled around to get a good linear sequence?

[_Al_]

Yes,
I use it for home videos, it means to be disciplined while shooting, try to get nice and locked white balances right away. I think that home video should be kept as is, no effects, color gradings, except some movies, clips of course. For movies or shooting for business doesn't matter, perhaps there is a need to render 1920x1080 or 1280x720 anyway.

[Jim E]

Okay, thanks, Al.

Well, looks like I'll be getting a blu-ray burner then. Not for my home movies, although I do like to be able to "enhance" them sometimes, when the subject can benefit from it.

But for a fiction movie, I like to at least colour grade the footage. I think anything that adds a slight "remove" between the screen and the audience is good. Straight video always looks too "Right There", and I think that diminishes the movie-watching experience just a little.

Also, I've got all these compositing and spfx programs, and well, you know....

Yes,
I use it for home videos, it means to be disciplined while shooting, try to get nice and locked white balances right away. I think that home video should be kept as is, no effects, color gradings, except some movies, clips of course. For movies or shooting for business perhaps there is a need to render 1920x1080 or 1280x720 anyway. Those media players can play anything .

[_Al_]

oops

[_Al_]

Ok, I'm not sure if I understood correctly first time, you can color grade some sequence and when you smart render the whole thing only color graded part is rendered again, the rest is copied as is.

Media player plays back anything, no need to buy Blu-Ray burner because you color grade your movies.

[Jim E]

Ok, I'm not sure if I understood correctly first time, you can color grade some sequence and when you smart render the whole thing only color graded part is rendered again, the rest is copied as is.

Media player plays back anything, no need to buy Blu-Ray burner because you color grade your movies.

Okay, that sounds better!

One more thing... what about composited footage? You know, with some particle effect or maybe some extra layers... and/or greenscreen composites..?

[_Al_]

One more thing... what about composited footage? You know, with some particle effect or maybe some extra layers... and/or greenscreen composites..?

That is a change of the original and your footage will be rendered again. You can add a small black dot into your footage :-) and the original is going to be decoded and encoded again.

[Jim E]

That is a change of the original and your footage will be rendered again. You can add a small black dot into your footage :-) and the original is going to be decoded and encoded again.

Obviously I need to better acquaint myself with the intricacies of the processes involved in recording and transferring footage to a computer.

I think maybe I'm thinking too hard about this, and that even re-rendered footage (with spfx), will look just fine.

Only one way to find out. Make a short flick with all the bells and whistles, and then buy a media player with a 7-Day return policy!!

Thanks a lot, Al!

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[oddmanil]

Okay, thanks, Al.

Well, looks like I'll be getting a blu-ray burner then. Not for my home movies, although I do like to be able to "enhance" them sometimes, when the subject can benefit from it.

But for a fiction movie, I like to at least colour grade the footage. I think anything that adds a slight "remove" between the screen and the audience is good. Straight video always looks too "Right There", and I think that diminishes the movie-watching experience just a little.

Also, I've got all these compositing and spfx programs, and well, you know....

No, you do not need a blue-ray burner, but of course, you can buy one.

Download Sony Vegas 9.0, free 30 days trial, edit and render as AVC 17 Mbps, and burn to a DVD using Sony DVDArchitect. Will be "blue-ray quality".

[Jim E]

No, you do not need a blue-ray burner, but of course, you can buy one.

Download Sony Vegas 9.0, free 30 days trial, edit and render as AVC 17 Mbps, and burn to a DVD using Sony DVDArchitect. Will be "blue-ray quality".

Whoaa! This sounds too good to be true, Oddmanil!

When you say it will be blu-ray quality, are you saying it will look indistinguishable from full high definition? With the correct pixel resolution and screen dimensions and all that?

Not doubting your word, man, but that's kinda hard to get my head around. I've read a lot about HD and never come across that before. Can you go into more detail, please? Is that Vegas Pro 9, or will the standard version do the same thing?

Thanks.

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[drapeama]

When you say it will be blu-ray quality, are you saying it will look indistinguishable from full high definition? With the correct pixel resolution and screen dimensions and all that?
Is that Vegas Pro 9, or will the standard version do the same thing?

1) It will be undistinguishable from a bluray, except from the source : HV vs 35mm.
Did some AVCHD disks : on a single layer dvd 4.7gb, for a 28mins video and a single dolby digital audio 640kbps, i can have the video running at 17mbps easilly. When you know that some bluray are sold on single layer discs 25gb with video running a less than 20mbps (of course with lossless audio) you can imagine the results.
2) For optimal quality/performance, i'd recommend you to render from Vegas in an uncompressed .avi file and use MeGui to compress the video to AVC. If it's only for youtube, render it directly from Vegas, but as i'm a bit perfectionnist, i prefer the quality i get from MeGui even if it takes a couple of hour of rendering. There's preset in both version, just stick with one of them at 720p and you'll be fine.

[Jim E]

1) It will be undistinguishable from a bluray, except from the source : HV vs 35mm.
Did some AVCHD disks : on a single layer dvd 4.7gb, for a 28mins video and a single dolby digital audio 640kbps, i can have the video running at 17mbps easilly. When you know that some bluray are sold on single layer discs 25gb with video running a less than 20mbps (of course with lossless audio) you can imagine the results.
2) For optimal quality/performance, i'd recommend you to render from Vegas in an uncompressed .avi file and use MeGui to compress the video to AVC. If it's only for youtube, render it directly from Vegas, but as i'm a bit perfectionnist, i prefer the quality i get from MeGui even if it takes a couple of hour of rendering. There's preset in both version, just stick with one of them at 720p and you'll be fine.

Drape, I may still have this wrong, but doesn't this solution still require the DVD to be played on a Blu-Ray player?

My audience is pretty much always going to be comprised of family, friends, and club members. So I don't really have a need to burn my movies to small transportable medium. If I really want to, I can still burn my HD footage to a SD DVD and send it away to my relatives, just that they won't see it in HD.

I went out today and picked up a Western Digital Live ID Media Player, and I'm presently rendering my current HD footage to my external 1T HDD. I'm going to try each codec in Premiere Elements 7 (which is my current NLE, haven't got Vegas), to see which one sends it out uncompressed, (what a noob I am!), and when/if I find one in PE7, I'll just play it through the player, and use that workflow every time.

If I want to exhibit my HD movies in all their glory on a relative's TV, I can easily take the little media player and external HDD to their place and hook it up in a minute.

But if PE7 can't do it, I'm quite prepared to get Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum, since I know it can do it.

Basically, what I want is something as close as possible to the original recorded image, without a significant running-time limit.

Meanwhile, I'll look into your other suggestion, viz, rendering the footage as an .avi and using MeGui to convert it to AVC, if you're saying that will result in a high definition film on a HD TV screen.

DISCLAIMER: If I've still got this whole thing bass-ackwards, please say so. Only thing worse than being ignorant is staying ignorant.

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