DIY gear for our shoot

[azmyth]

One of the actors we have working with us contacted me after we had cast him (he's a stand up comedian trying to get into acting) and told me that he and his brother had been interested in film making for a while and had built a DIY track dolly, mini jib, and crane.

He sent me some test footage he shot using it. I think it looks pretty good, thoughts?

[KingDucky]

Looks great except the shot rising of the ground in the very beginning is a little wobbly. Maybe it was just the a mistake.Also that dolly is pretty sweet. Ladder

Azmyth, you start a lot of threads. Every time I log on there's like 2 from you. Not that it's bad. Just felt like pointing it out.


Looks cool!

[azmyth]

I have nothing better to do, on this new years eve. Actually its funny you mention it. I was toying with the idea of doing a spoof short on being addicted to these forums..

I noticed the wobbly shot too, I think that was a mistake. Everything else was smooth except for that one little part.

[KingDucky]

addicted to these forums..

That'd be awesome. But I know this forum is extremely addictive. I just always have to be on them.

And yea besides that one shot that stuff all looks great. I also read you checklist thread and you have a bunch of nice stuff there. Gunna be a sweet film.

But listen to what antman said about lights. He seems to know what he talking about.

Good luck. And Happy New Years also!

[antman]

ok, I went on ebay and found you a couple CHEAP options for lighting, Remember these are basic cheap lights that can and will be able to produce professional results. There no Disiti's, but will work till you get some more budget. Anyways, I thought these would be good because their daylight balanced, they come with diffusion, they use standard screw in lamps, and are sold with stands, obviously their not great, but they will certainly do.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2000-Watt-Photo-...item27ae13162c

[KingDucky]

OK don't want to jack the thread from Azmyth, but to do three point lighting with those lights you'd need a reflector right? And In Azmyths checklist thread you recommended that the lights be around 10k watts for it to look good. Would these do anything at 2k watts?

Thanks

[antman]

Yeah, I didn't mean one 10k light, I meant he will need about 10k combined.

This is just a good place to start or add to what he already has. The softboxes are good to have for diffusion,(and will help in the elimination of shadows) (Although, I sometimes like hard shadows, depending on what im shooting) he will still have to get some gels to correct the Kelvin temp, if he mixes light. And that will eat stops quickly. These lamps can be changed easy, their standard screw in type bulbs. So if he wants to change them out to halogen he can quick and easy. And lastly, they come with a stand, and the screw type tightner, not those sucky flip lever. These arn't the best stands, but will due, and still need sandbagged.

(JUST BE CAREFUL WITH USING ALL THE SOCKETS WITH HALOGEN, HEAT COULD DAMAGE THE SOFTBOX)

He will have to add a light to get a standard three point light, but depending on the light source these will add some rays and as you suggest, he can use a reflector. I would suggest getting more anyways, he will need it with a dof adapter.

[KingDucky]

Yeah, I didn't mean one 10k light, I meant he will need about 10k combined.

Ooook that settles a lot. Thanks for all the help antman.

[Duke]

Antman is right, you do need more light, and the kit he pointed you to would be a good start.

However, I'd strongly advise against sticking halogens in that soft box. Halogens are only about 5% efficient and the rest is given off as tremendous amounts of waste heat. If you stick 5 of them in a confined space like that softbox you are asking for a fire. Generally halogens require porcelain sockets.

The other issue is total wattage. Those CFL bulbs use very little electricity, maybe ~20 watts each. (That's why they are cooler, they are more efficent and giving off less waste heat.) Five of those is like a 100 watt bulb.

Most household circuits are only 10-15 amps (1200-1800). Older houses may vary.

(Kitchens and bathrooms generally have higher amperage circuits, living rooms and bedrooms are lower.) Which is why most prosumer lights don't go over 600 watts per light for 3 point lighting.

Once you go to 5 or six lights you have more issues. Try to use more than one circuit in the house with a heavy extention cord. (Cheap home extention cords are nick-named zip cords because that's the sound they make when they fry and set your house on fire.)

[azmyth]

This is what I already have antman.. actually I bought them from the same company.. they just have umbrellas instead of softboxes.

They came with my 10' x 20' green screen kit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/10x20-CHROMAKEY-...ht_2713wt_1165

The stands are not bad, alot better than I expected actually. Sping loaded. The lights are pretty bright as well. Should I get those softbox lights in addition to the ones I have?

The stands on the green screen can be used as light stands, would just need softboxes/bulb/recept. not sure where to buy them seperate though.

Here's the lights I was looking at purchasing.

http://www.cowboystudio.com/product/c16/p16-12.php

but your suggesting, the softbox lights in addition to the lights I already have?

Its a horror film so there will be some hard shadows..

Here's a list of all the locations I need to light.. and available lighting that would already be there...

Exterior of a tiny lot, there is a missile enclosed in chainlink/razor wire enclosure. The enclosure has lights that illuminate the missile. There's probably a streetlight or two as well its in town. Here's a picture of it..



Exterior Parking lot (close shots mostly) standing next to cars.

Interior of several cars at night

Interior of Kitchen, Bathroom, bedroom, living room in several different residences, at night and day.

Interior classroom day.

Exterior college campus day. Mostly close shots, but a few wide shots to show things going on around the actors.

Exterior campground night, will be a large bonfire going. Will be contained to a fairly small area.

Exterior wooded area, night. Actors will have flashlights. Need to be able to see them as well as shadows from the flashlights. its a "nature trail" like path.

Exterior Highway, night. Will be about 20-30 extras here. All standing in the middle of the road. A car pulls up, which will provide some illumination.

Exterior House, night. Some shots of the yard, and the porch. Porch lights available.

Campfire area again, but this time in the day/early morning. Will be an ambulance, police car and such in the shot.

Interior Shower, night.

And the biggest scene of the film. Exterior Halloween Party, night. Will be under a bungalow type shelter, that has incandescent bulbs running down the ceiling. We'll have all sorts of illuminated Halloween decorations, tiki lamps everywhere. There will be a band on a stage that will be illuminated as well. 20-30 extras here as well, possibly more. If you've ever seen "The Pumpkin Carver" and seen the Halloween party scene on there.. something similar.

they don't really show it too much here, but you can stream it on netflix I believe

[tcindie]

Exterior of a tiny lot, there is a missile enclosed in chainlink/razor wire enclosure. The enclosure has lights that illuminate the missile. There's probably a streetlight or two as well its in town. Here's a picture of it..

Where is this? Is that seriously a real missile out in the middle of some random lot somewhere?

[azmyth]

Where is this? Is that seriously a real missile out in the middle of some random lot somewhere?

Lol, its in GA. And yes its a real missile..

They actually had to remove part of it years ago because it was leaking radiation.

Seemed like a perfect backdrop for a horror movie.

[antman]

The stands are not bad, alot better than I expected actually. Sping loaded. The lights are pretty bright as well. Should I get those softbox lights in addition to the ones I have?

The stands on the green screen can be used as light stands, would just need softboxes/bulb/recept. not sure where to buy them seperate though.

Yes, even with what you have , your still going to need a lot of light, even if your going for an underexposed look. You want to be able to control the under exposure, as opposed to being stuck working in an under exposed enviornment due to lack of gear.

Honestly, you can never have to many stands, I have upwards of forty, maybe more. They vary in all shapes and sizes. You will need a couple boom stands as well, and a couple little 12-24" inch stands. Sand bags are an absolute necessacity, If you can afford C+STANDS go for those, or buy one at a time, their industry standard, and for good reason.

And as Duke suggests, be careful with overloading circuits. Buy a few good stingers. And spread your ampage. I also agree with him on switching lamps in those fixtures. Usually a good softbox with Halogens have a fan to exhaust the heat.

So here's a small list

1. lights
2. gels, toughspun,extra bulbs(lamps)
3. good extension cords
4. SAND BAGS, SAND BAGS, SAND BAGS. I dont care if you fill a plastic bag with sand, it's better than nothing. (As I said before, a tipped light can kill, or burn someone severly. Maybe im anal about this but you don't want that on your shoulders. Plus you will be sued and screwed.

Your getting there, whens your first shoot?

[azmyth]

tentatively set to begin at the beginning of February. We are doing screen tests all this month, thats why I have to go ahead and start getting what other lights we need ordered so they can be on their way here.

[azmyth]

So, antman..

As you said I will need tons more light.
We already know I have those two lights, and I have 2 more stands. I have access to lots of boom stands as well, but no lights to go on them. We have 5 500w CFL bulbs, but no stands. How many more lights do I need to buy to be safe, and what types?

I know you suggested the softbox kit, but is that it?

[Erik Bien]

We have 5 500w CFL bulbs, but no stands.

Do you need fixtures for your CFLs too, or just stands? This kit is a pretty economical way to score some cheapie plastic fixtures, brellas and 'barely adequate, but better than nothing' stands.

[antman]

Do you need fixtures for your CFLs too, or just stands? This kit is a pretty economical way to score some cheapie plastic fixtures, brellas and 'barely adequate, but better than nothing' stands.

These will work too, I tend to prefer a softbox over brellas because of the spill, But as Erik says, these will definetly work when on a tight budget. And keep in mind, even with these you can always use a focused bulb, such as a flood. remember to do lots of experimintation.

Wait a minute, I just remembered something. We bought some good sized 12" or bigger dome reflectors from Home Dept, They had a good ceramic socket and they were only ten bucks a piece. We bought a cheap can of their flat black spray paint, shot the outside. They were great, even had a clamp. I got these for our makeup artist, and screwed in some daylight rated bulbs. These wern't bad either. And in a pinch you can always use Parchment paper as diffusion. ( it's made to go in the oven, so heats not an issue).

Ok, so know you no most of my little tricks, you should receive a bill in the mail shortly.lol

[tcindie]

We bought a cheap can of their flat black spray paint, shot the outside.

I've got several scoop lights that I painted similarly. However I recommend using the high-heat paint intended for grills or car engines as it will let you use incandescent lamps as well as cfl's in the fixture without having to worry about all the paint burning off.

[antman]

I've got several scoop lights that I painted similarly. However I recommend using the high-heat paint intended for grills or car engines as it will let you use incandescent lamps as well as cfl's in the fixture without having to worry about all the paint burning off.

Your absolutly right.

[azmyth]

10,000 watts is alot of power lol.

my two lights totals to only about 800w.

I think the bulbs we have are 500w each, and the lights I was looking at were 800w each..

still pretty far away from being 10,000

[tcindie]

Contrary to popular belief, you actually should use MORE light when shooting digitally than when shooting on film.. this has everything to do with the tiny dynamic range of digital. Even things that you want to be totally black shadow in the final image should be lit in the shot. (then crunched down to black in post)

So, if you've ever seen behind the scenes footage of a film set, that'll give you an idea of the amount of light you should really be aiming for. It's probably a little unrealistic to expect that you'll be able to afford that much light gear. You can get by with basically what you've already got if every shot is really tight, but if you want anything more than a 3/4 shot or so you'll want more -- as much as you can get.

[antman]

You don't have to have exactly 10,000 watts. But I can tell you if you try to shoot outside at night with a dof adapter, and with no gain, you may need 15k. lol


It really sounds like a lot more than it is. I use a couple 2k's and thats four thousand right there. Never mind the other angles, then when you diffuse the light, you have lost a great deal already. Ask Erik, If I recall he works a a theatre, im sure he can attest to some serious lighting.

[azmyth]

am I looking for halogen lights with that much wattage? I haven't seen any flourescents with that kind of power.

[antman]

Thats what I usually use just because thats what I have and stuck with. If im in a tight spot, I borrow some kinoflows from my friend. As duke said Halogens are not energy efficient, and give off a lot of heat. Im looking in to converting my halogens to hmi's but even thats expensive.

And remember, your shooting a feature film. this isn't a small short with two actors. you really have to have your stuff together when these actors and crew show up. So when your gaffer needs gear, you want to have it so he can do his job. Same with the grips, they need their gear too. Gaffers tape, plenty of grip heads,metal rod,tools, and what ever else goes with the gig. Im just saying don't forget these aspects either.

[azmyth]

Oh yeah, those aren't forgotten. I've mostly been on big budget movie sets, which of course spare no expense on anything.. so its hard to "see" how much lighting is needed from doing that. Any good low budget behind the scenes videos out there? My DP has knowledge of lighting, but he's also very indecisive. His idea was to do tests with what we have, and worry about getting more lighting if it was needed (which I'm fairly sure it will be.)