7d versus fx1000

[thequads]

guess which one is which!

I did some side by sides. Trying to match the fx1000's gamma curves(in-camera, not post) to the 7d as much as posible. Also zooming in to try to match the shallow DOF.. can you guess which one is which? The 7d is supposed to blow away camcorders in terms or color latitude and dynamic range right?

[Seo]

I vote for the first one as the FX1000 and the second as the 7D.

[thequads]

here are the setups..I tried to match the exposure and grain between both cams... The fx1000 has other picture profiles that are better in lowlight and flatter.. but I had to use the cinema profile, which crushes blacks, in order to match the 7d's tendency to crush that range... no post color correction at all.

fx1000:
Aperture: f/2.6(max at this zoom range)
Shutter: 40
Gain: 0db
Profile: Cinema 2(the worst lowlight in-camera gamma setting for this camera)

7d:
Aperture: f/5.6
Shutter: 40
ISO: 800
Profile: Neutral

[thequads]

The first shot is the 7D and the second one is the fx1000.

here are more fx1000 screen grabs. The following is the same scene but with a flatter camera profile. The blacks are restored.. I guess good for those that like to color grade flat footage.
fxflat.jpg

some night shots

fxcar.jpg

fxflatshop.jpg

fxtables.jpg

fxlot.jpg

I'm not really seeing the 7d trumping the fx1000 in dynamic range or color latitude.. at least in the test I did here. I thinkd the 7d does have better lowlight from what I"ve experienced so far.. to be able to stop the lens down to 5.6 and get that clean exposure from just house lights is pretty damn good.

[dcloud]

nope its not supposed to blow any video camera away in any latitude.. only in cinematic quality and DOF

[thequads]

well in my first post, when DOF is the same, the fx1000 looks more cinematic. It's the gamma curve profile(crushed blacks) that give it the look. An hvx200a would probably have even better cinematic look because pannys seem to seperate colors better.... so I think it's only the native DOF and low-light that the 7d has over camcorders.


ah. to clarify, I didn't mean the fx1000 is a more cinematic looking camera, but that cinematic looks depends heavily on how the curves are set. The canon 7d defaults to a more cinematic one, but most prosumers have the ability to get the same with in-camera settings.

[antman]

I have thought this from the beginning, I see so many people switching to the 7d as some sort of quick fix for a cinematic look, When in all actuality you can get pretty much the same results if you work at it. Im not saying the 7d isn't anything special because it is. But I would rather have a camcorder(prosumer) over a 7d all day any day. It is way more versatile in the end. You can always use a dof adapter when you need a really shallow dof. I can't forego all the manuel switches on my xha1.

[Ian-T]

You FX image is more contrasty than the 7D by the way. If you are trying to make all things equal, why are you stopping down to f5.6 on the DSLR and f2.6 on the camcorder? Set your DSLR lens to 2.6 and you'll see how much more light you let in while at the same time could turn down your ISO.

I'm not sure where you got that DSLRs are supposed to blow away camcorders. But judging from your test, if you are going to use the 7D;s default settings, then most decent cams will look better since it and the 5Dll (and basically most DSLRs) crush the blacks etc. The problem there though is most folks who like to test them against other camcorders mistakenly base their judgment off that. Use custom curves in the Canon and you will get a different perspective. It's already been determined that the 7D gets around 8.5 usable stops but I'm not sure of the FX.

[thequads]

I'm not sure where you got that DSLRs are supposed to blow away camcorders

well it's the general gist I get from the boards. That dslrs own camcorders in terms of image, but fail in terms of video function and resolution. Also maybe it's my own perception since I thought such a huge sensor would kill in terms of color and range.. But hey, this just my first impression. I'm getting some zeiss lenses in a couple days, so it may change. I don't buy Barry Greens assertion that glass don't matter. In his glass tests I could clearly see a difference between good glass and bad glass.

You FX image is more contrasty than the 7D by the way. If you are trying to make all things equal, why are you stopping down to f5.6 on the DSLR and f2.6 on the camcorder? Set your DSLR lens to 2.6 and you'll see how much more light you let in while at the same time could turn down your ISO.

I can't stop that lens up any futher. It's a 3.5-5.6 zoom and I'm at it's max focal lenth @ 80mm. It actually turns out as being more fair because the DOF ends up being about the same between both cams. This isn't a low light test, but a "look" test. I bet most people thought the second image was the 7D because people are used to seeing camcorder vs 7d comparrisons where the camocorder is usually set to a low contrast flat curve and the 7d is at it's default high contrast curve.

I did try to equllize the contrast but since the fx1000 doens't have as robust setting controls like more higher end camcorders it's def not a match.


Anyways I've been seing people tryin the darndest to get the 7d image to be flat for color grading puposes with some success. I find it weird why Camcorders, like the ex1, have their dfaults to flat.. it just doesn't look good.

[Ian-T]

I agree with you by the way in regards to Barry. I think lens do matter (maybe not as much as we were all lead to believe). Some lens are more contrasty than others. Some are soft yet sharp. SOme are vivid. I understand Barry's point in that the resolution on these DSLRs is basically not strong enough to exploit the sharpness of these lens....but I only agree with that to a degree (and it seems there are a number of folks who also agree with this).

Barry's test are very good in letting us know how these cameras technically operate...but it doesn't show "real-world" use. But when these cams are shooting at infinity, wide open, they look like typical camcorders. As a matter of fact you might be able to spot the DSLR vs camcorder images easier due to aliasing. But I still believe the DSLRs win in the area of color representation and dynamic range (depending on what cam you're going up againts.....I mean...it won't beat an EX-1 in resolution or dynamic range...but that's argued by some who actually own an EX-1).

[thequads]

unless the fx1000 has better picture capabilities than an ex1, I have a feeling those ex1 users aren't taking advantage of the ex1's capabilities...

In terms of aliasing, I'm actually surprised that I haven't spotted any bad aliasing yet. From the reviews, I was expecting it to be all over the place.. but yeah, maybe at infinity I'll see it. I'm afraid to try, lol.

[Ian-T]

Actually....aliasing most of the time (in the case of these DSLRs) is a good (not a bad) thing believe it or not. Barry goes on in another article to talk about this. This is where these DSLRs get their sharpness from. It makes sense if you think about it...they might lack in detailed resolution (on test charts) but still get their sharpness from aliasing. It's the bad aliasing that gives the cameras a bad name and shows up the worst in 7D/60p. The 1080p on the 7D is just great and doesn't get the moire/aliasing as much. But some folks have found a solution to aliasing through those Caprock filters.

[Seo]

Yeah, aliasing is a double edged sword. Without it, the DSLRs wouldn't do much better than an SD camera but wouldn't have any aliasing artifacts, but with it, they can output at HD but with aliasing artifacts.

[thequads]

here's another comparo. This time with a better lens on the 7d. I rushed the fx1000 shot so I completely missed focus and didn't get comparable exposure and white balance.. anyway you can really see how good glass will bring the best out of the 7d.

7Dzeiss85.jpg

FX1000fx100bottles1.jpg

as you can see the focus was more in the middleground.
fx100bottles2.jpg

But all in all I think they're both cinematic.. all about the camera curves and proper exposure..

One thing I must say about this test though, while the grabs on the 7d look fantastic, the footage is completely useles because of jello. I don't think I can pull off handheld without some steadcam device.

oh yeah and about lowlight. I'm not even gonna bother posting results. Whith a f1.4 lens on the 7d.. the fx1000 just doesn't hold a candle.

[swaneon]

btw
the 7d has 11 stops