Static Vs. Vibrating DoF Adaptor

[The Grin]

Hey everyone,
I was wondering which adaptor has a better resolution or is higher quality.
I'm either buying a Jag35Pro, or a Jag35ST with a 40mm achromat adaptor as an add-on from www.jag35.com.

From the demo videos, the static actually looks like higher quality, but I'm wondering why it's $200 cheaper than the vibrating adaptor. It could just be the lighting and the lenses that are attached, but I thought I'd ask the experts.

I don't know if it will make a difference in anyone's opinion, but I have a Canon HV20.

This is relatively important as I need to buy it in time for Christmas.

Thanks in advance for helping me out.

[azmyth]

Hey everyone,
I was wondering which adaptor has a better resolution or is higher quality.
I'm either buying a Jag35Pro, or a Jag35ST with a 40mm achromat adaptor as an add-on from www.jag35.com.

From the demo videos, the static actually looks like higher quality, but I'm wondering why it's $200 cheaper than the vibrating adaptor. It could just be the lighting and the lenses that are attached, but I thought I'd ask the experts.

I don't know if it will make a difference in anyone's opinion, but I have a Canon HV20.

This is relatively important as I need to buy it in time for Christmas.

Thanks in advance for helping me out.

The JAG35 Pro has a vibrating GG, while the static doesn't. The static also doesn't have an achromat unless you add it extra.

[MalfunctioningHuman]

From order of worst to best: Static > Vibrating > Rotating.

The idea is that you want to not see a lot of the imperfections (grain, dust, scratches) in the ground glass element. I wouldn't even bother with Static unless you are going the DIY route just to experiment. If you are lucky enough not to have tons of dirt and dust specs which are tough to clean and which will drive you nuts when you look at your footage, you will see the grain when you look at the picture in HD in a big screen.

[patrykrebisz]

Actually the other way around from worst to best: Vibrating - Static - Rotating.

In theory Vibrating adapter seems like a great solution to dirt BUT HV20s CMOS sensor shows visible vibration artifacts in the footage if shot on tripod. Also the fact that to get rid of the dust you need to create micro vibration you are asking for tons of trouble. Trust me from experience, vibrating adapter is NOT the way to go unless you are thinking handheld (where the handhelness will mask the possible vibration).

[MalfunctioningHuman]

Actually the other way around from worst to best: Vibrating - Static - Rotating.

[...]
Trust me from experience, vibrating adapter is NOT the way to go unless you are thinking handheld (where the handhelness will mask the possible vibration).

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing this out. I need to do some more reading. I personally am not thinking of getting into a DOF adapter until I can comfortably afford something like the Handy35 (which is a rotating one.) Not on my list of priorities right now though.

[patrykrebisz]

Watch this to see why spinning adapters are superior to vibrating ones:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx9uGqrNoCs"]YouTube- LetusMini + Canon HV20 = you can't shoot on tripod[/ame]

[doruondun]

If you are able to change the vibration speed, then the vibrating one is a lot better than static. You will see a lot of dust and sandy texture on static, believe me. Spinning adapters are too big for hv20.

[patrykrebisz]

What do you mean by "too big for HV20">

[Erik Bien]

IMHO, it also depends on your intended shooting scenario: if you're shooting action sports outdoors, with fast shutter speeds and tight apertures, the extra speed of a spinner will let you push those settings further before revealing the static grain.

However spinners are also usually bigger, noisier and optically slower than the vibrating types, so if you're shooting narrative style with synch sound and staying generally around f/5.6 and below at 1/48th-1/50th, a vibrating model may suit you better.

Although there are some vertiginously expensive static adapters with performance equal to or better than either of the motorized types, in general terms static adapters are cheaper and simpler, but reveal every smudge and speck and pit and dimple of the focusing screen, and all this added picture noise will be in perfect focus, sitting in the exact same spot from one frame to the next. (Which, of course, is what led to the more complicated spinning and vibrating types in the first place.)

[patrykrebisz]

I'm still not getting answers as to the cause of my never-ending battle with the vibrating adapter on a tripod -- all seems to be just a work around, so as for reliability (MAJOR factor in fast-paced environment of film production) the vibrating adapters are just not IT.

[TiE_Shepherd]

I'm still not getting answers as to the cause of my never-ending battle with the vibrating adapter on a tripod -- all seems to be just a work around, so as for reliability (MAJOR factor in fast-paced environment of film production) the vibrating adapters are just not IT.

As Erik and I both pointed out in the other thread, this problem you're having with your adapter isn't something that all vibrating adapters suffer from.... might not even be a problem with every Letus Mini. Did you get the Letus new or used? Have you tried contacting the company to see what they think the problem might be?

[The Grin]

Thanks for all the responses. I've heard that the vibrating adaptors at www.jag35.com have gotten rid of the problem of the "wobbles" while shooting with a tripod. Is this just a rumor or does anyone know if it is true?

Is there a way to stop this from happening when shooting with a tripod?

[Seo]

If you are able to change the vibration speed, then the vibrating one is a lot better than static. You will see a lot of dust and sandy texture on static, believe me. Spinning adapters are too big for hv20.

I saw a Samsung Xacti used on an SGBlade, and many HV40s used on Handy35s. Size is irrelevant here.

[jboy]

Actually the other way around from worst to best: Vibrating - Static - Rotating.

Hu? go to the shorts 2 contest and watch Road Rage, 2 of the cams had handy35 v5 and one had a DIY vibrating. see if you can pick what shots were on the vibe.

[Voyle]

Get the jag35pro, trust me it's worth it unless you can live with dust spots ruining an entire days worth of footage.

I bought a static adapter about a year ago and never used it because the slightest speck of dust killed the entire shot for me, I'm a visual perfectionist though when it comes to stuff like that. I returned 7 different monitors because of dead pixels on arrival lol.

The vibration on tripods can be fixed by having a decent support system, either the rail setups or just a flat piece of metal with some foam padding on it where the adapter rests being attached under the camera. You can also adjust the vibration speed on the jag35pro. I highly recommend it.

[doruondun]

What do you mean by "too big for HV20">

Spinners have to have CD kinda spinning focusing screens... So If you calculate the diameter, you will see that it's bigger than HV20's size...

Also you can easily change the focusing screen by different ones (different bokeh styles)... For me, brevis is the best choice for every size camera. It is upgradable, milimetric adjustable, and very light and no vignetting up to f2.8...

[Kostas]

Have a look at my recent footage with the jag35 static http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=31668
it may give you an idea. From my understanding the major practical difference between those two adapters is that the vibrating avoids you possible problems with dust in the ground glass. However the overall build quality and light loss are similar. In my opinion you can still get good footage in daylight conditions, and in some cases stop down your lenses a bit, however in interior light conditions you have to have light, light and more light and defects of the ground glass, grain etc are easier noticeable. So it all depends on what you expect from the adapter. You always get what you pay for, but the static is very good value for money in my opinion.

[doruondun]

You always get what you pay for, but the static is very good value for money in my opinion.

Vibration is not a big deal. It's just a simple little motor vibrates the focusing screen. You can easily detect the static adapter when you look at the "out of focus" areas... For me, the out of focus should be smooth as possible, because that good bokeh gives you the taste of film look.

[SickTag]

Bottom line, how much money are you willing to spend.

[The Grin]

I've decided to go with the pro (The vibrating adaptor). Through research I've found the footage for it is great and beats the static, and that the problem with tripods has been solved. Thanks for all the input.

[karl]

Watch this to see why spinning adapters are superior to vibrating ones:
YouTube- LetusMini + Canon HV20 = you can't shoot on tripod

To me that looks definitely like a fault in the letus adapter. Letus is such an established company that produces good quality products and for the price that you pay id doubt that all of their mini's have the same problem.

[The Dark Shake]

So long as you make sure to clean the adapter before any serious shoot, a static model is fine. I was looking into vibrating/spinning when I got my HV30, but unless they're high end models like the letus, brevis etc. I tend to find DIY "moving" adapters quite faulty and don't really like the footage I see from them. I can usually tell when something's been shot with a vibrating or spinning adapter because the footage always seems to have a slight jello effect; maybe it's just me, but I pick up on it and I'd much rather have a little grain in my images than have something come out looking like the example posted in this thread. Not to mention the fact that I kind of dig the slight grain; it gives the images texture, whereas higher-end adapters tend to make things look a little too plasticy and "clean" for my tastes.

[pilot7amood]

bro it is easy get the pro and when mounted on a tripod turn off the vibrations and shoot, but handheld turn it on

[claudiog]

The wobble shown in the vibrating adapter when on tripod could be caused by resonances induced by the vibrations.
I saw that vibrating focusing screens are generally suspended on a frame which in turn is kept in place by three flexible stems stemming from the case.
So, if that case is too light it may get vibrating itself, I think.



Claudio

[foreigndude]

So long as you make sure to clean the adapter before any serious shoot, a static model is fine.

The Dark Shake - Do you own a static adapter? How do you clean it? I've been reading up on the different JAG35 models and, if a static adapter is something I can clean reasonably well in order to prevent the dirty footage, I'd rather not spend an extra $200 for JAG35PRO.

What is your overall opinion on these?