Booming microphone above vs below subject

[SilverStr]

I have been reading a bunch of threads here on Rode Video Mics, especially the great tests by CWildenradt in this thread, and I have a question.

In some interviews I am doing I want to get my mic off the top of my camera and closer to the subject using a 10 foot shielded cable. As I am alone, I won't have a boom operator and will simply use a boom mic stand.

Now for my question. Is it better to boom it ABOVE the subject and point the mic down, or would it be better to place it under the subject and point the mic up? And is 45 degrees about the right angle since it will be out of frame above or below?

[HueyNRolf]

Booming without an op to keep the mic on axis, is very hit or miss. Of course, your biggest problem is the VideoMic's poor immunity to signal interference.

[SilverStr]

Booming without an op to keep the mic on axis, is very hit or miss. Of course, your biggest problem is the VideoMic's poor immunity to signal interference.

Ya. I will use a shielded cable to try to reduce that problem as best I can. From the tests CWildenradt has shown, as long as its shielded and under 10 feet, it should be OK.

To my original question though, knowing it can't be right on axis but just under or over the frame of the shot, which would you recommend? I plan to test this myself, but right now I am trying to decide to type of mic stand to buy. If I don't need a heavy duty boom stand to get it above the subject, and can get by on a normal mic stand below, it may make more sense. However, I see way more people booming above; I am trying to figure out "WHY".

Anyone have any ideas?

[HueyNRolf]

Booming from above can cause reflections from the floor, although it remains the more popular method because the boom op has better control of axis. Aim for the heart, is what they'll tell you.

Ya. I will use a shielded cable to try to reduce that problem as best I can. From the tests CWildenradt has shown, as long as its shielded and under 10 feet, it should be OK.

What are talking about? Even without a long cable your mic took a huge interference hit on that last thing you posted.

Look, if shielded cables offered good immunity to signal interference, then that's what the industry would use. But it doesn't, balanced signal microphones are what cuts the mustard. I don't get why you're clinging on to that Rode VideoMic. Even if you dismiss the interference issues, you have no boom op, so it won't keep on axis... when the talent turns his head you're going to lose it.

Spending more money on stands and shielded cables etc. is a losing battle. Just bite the bullet, sell the VideoMic and with the money you're proposing to spend on booms and stands, get a UHF wireless lav.

Oy vey!

[bmsweb]

I've had my Rode Video mic on a Mini Tripod below my subject and it worked well, but my subject was seated and looking directly into the camera so there was no need to follow them. Having said that depending on where I have the cable I sometimes get a little signal interference, which means having to clean it up in either Soundbooth or Audition depending on which pc I use.

Where I do our Green/White screen, I'm on tiles so reflections from the floor is an issue, hence my reason for having my mic below the subject pointing up. So it may also depend on your location.

I actually found keeping the cable off the ground helped with reducing signal interference.

Cheers
Paul

[HueyNRolf]

So Paul, is this a shielded cable you have suspended off the floor?

Ya know, these noise removers are really clever and, in most cases, they do a good job. But there is a price to pay in yanking out those offending frequencies, plus the hassle of having to do unnecessary work. Then of course, there's the risk of picking up a real dirty Sanchez which the noise remover won't be able to cope with and you just know this will happen when something really matters. Call me old fashioned, but I'd rather use clean reliable gear from the get go.

[bmsweb]

So Paul, is this a shielded cable you have suspended off the floor?

Yes this is correct. I think depending on where the cable runs there could be power cables or something just below the floor, so if you're directly over them you get that Humming.

Now I know when I take it to Taekwondo it works perfectly. I get REALLY clean Audio.

Cheers
Paul

[bmsweb]

Forgot to mention, yes you're 100% correct in that there is a price to pay when removing unwanted noise. It kills me everytime I've had to clean up the audio! So much is lost hey

[HueyNRolf]

Now I know when I take it to Taekwondo it works perfectly. I get REALLY clean Audio.

Works really well in CWildenradt's bedroom too, maybe he should rent the place out?

[bmsweb]

Its like that when you use humble consumer equipment

[DrDave]

Position the mic where it sounds the best, there is not an "ideal" spot for a mic. As long as it is out of view. Try to aim the nulls away from obvious background noise.

[antman]

I don't get why you're clinging on to that Rode VideoMic

Agreed, Their really a less than avg mic when you take in to consideration the limitations they have. We tried to use one ONCE. And once was enough. I think people like them for the fact that they come with a shockmount and their cheap. But 8 out of ten times the audio is hollow and tinty sounding. and almost always with a buzz.

[antman]

I don't get why you're clinging on to that Rode VideoMic

Agreed, Their really a less than avg mic when you take in to consideration the limitations they have. We tried to use one ONCE. And once was enough. I think people like them for the fact that they come with a shockmount and their cheap. But eight out of ten times the audio is hollow and tinty sounding. and almost always with a buzz.

[HueyNRolf]

Yeah Antman, the mic also comes with a foam screen with RODE printed on it. Indeed, Sennheiser has an April Fool's mic too, with the name printed on its foam screen.

Aimed at J6P, who wants to stick an appendage on his little camera so as he can stick it to the world.

Then there's the crappy Azden VHF lav kit. This one broadcasts 'PRO' in big bold yellow letters... same idea.

[Thousanium]

That's pretty unfair. The Videomic was developed for casual DV users who wanted to get better sound than the camcorders in built mics. It wasn't meant to be pro gear, and it isn't priced as such either.

I think most people get the Videomic because it's cheap and easy to use, especially when you need to factor in buying a separate shockmount, boom pole, xlr cables and pre-amp or external recording device. Spending that much for sound equipment is pretty daunting when you just spent $1000 on a camera and are just getting into video.

I have a Videomic and a NTG-2 and in hindsight I wouldn't have bought the Videomic, I would've just waited and gotten the NTG-2 in the first place. Now my videomic stays on top of my HV30 for when I'm just doing home video stuff and I'll use my NTG-2 for planned shoots.

[HueyNRolf]

That's pretty unfair. The Videomic was developed for casual DV users who wanted to get better sound than the camcorders in built mics. It wasn't meant to be pro gear, and it isn't priced as such either.

I think most people get the Videomic because it's cheap and easy to use, especially when you need to factor in buying a separate shockmount, boom pole, xlr cables and pre-amp or external recording device. Spending that much for sound equipment is pretty daunting when you just spent $1000 on a camera and are just getting into video.

I have a Videomic and a NTG-2 and in hindsight I wouldn't have bought the Videomic, I would've just waited and gotten the NTG-2 in the first place. Now my videomic stays on top of my HV30 for when I'm just doing home video stuff and I'll use my NTG-2 for planned shoots.

Hello Thousanium

I agree with you... all correct.

[bmsweb]

I also use my Rode Videomic for VOs directly on my Laptop in Premiere and it works great on the PC too.

Thousanium, also agree with you 100%, its a great mic that does exactly what it was designed to do and does it well.

[SilverStr]

I appreciate everyone's comments.

I am not holding on to the Rode for nostalgia sake. It is just a much better mic than what is onboard. It only cost me $100 and increased the quality of the recording 10 fold. Yes there is a hum, but its still much cleaner than what I had before. And from the sampling I have seen from others on this forum, I am not even getting the best out of my Rode mic. Most of that hum can be removed if I had a better idea on how to calibrate and set it up. The adjustment to -12 db is something I still have to test.

The dig at CWildenradt's bedroom tests was funny. Probably true too being that it was a constrained environment. But I think it is fair to say that he was getting way better quality than I was from the videos you are referring to that I shot at the last conference I was at.

HueyNRolf, what UHF wireless lav would you recommend that will plug right into the HV20? I am not averse to investing in better gear. My problem is, I don't know what to look for that is cost effective, and can get me what I want. Your experience would be helpful here.

Of course my original question still stands. Replace Rode with your favorite shotgun mic of the day. Is it better to place the mic above or below the subject? Comments have been made about floor reflection, which is a good point. Any others?

[Square Bob]

I would recommend upgrading to a Zoom H4 before spending anything over $100 for a mic. No worries about interference and really good audio to work with. As others have said placement is a matter of choice but in the situation you describe I would suggest that the mic be placed low on a short stand.

[DrDave]

You can put a Zoom H2 on boom pole and skip the wire. W00t!

[HueyNRolf]

HueyNRolf, what UHF wireless lav would you recommend that will plug right into the HV20? I am not averse to investing in better gear. My problem is, I don't know what to look for that is cost effective, and can get me what I want. Your experience would be helpful here.

I've had a lot of good experience with this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...05_Series.html

A step up the ladder in price, anyway. Is this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...00_Series.html

[SilverStr]

[ame="http://www.vimeo.com/734900"]Azden Wireless Microphone on the Canon HV20 on Vimeo[/ame]

WHat are your thoughts on this?

[blondandfun]

10' isn't that much distance, you're better off just holding the mic in your hand leveled. 10' away level with interviewee is better than 45 degree under the interviewee, unless it's close enough where the interviewee's face will take up the whole screen (less than 3 feet away), which is pretty tacky looking.

If you have a shtty location follow Huey Lewey's advice and get his UHF wireless, I also am a fan of azden.

[HueyNRolf]

This is the product that gives Azden a bad name, at least around here.
Problem is that it's VHF, this is like the unbalanced mic of the wireless world, so you risk signal interference. Infact, there's a nasty click on Bill's demo at 1:36, can't say for sure, but that's probably interference.

I wouldn't take a chance on it, attractive though the price is, I'd worry that it would let me down at the wrong time (as if there was a good time for gear to go flaky). I've been using the Azden UHF kit for just over a year now and it's been very dependable. I've heard stuff done with the Sennheiser G2 and it doesn't sound much different to my ears.

[patrykrebisz]

That Azden video shows how bad the mic is... i'm listening to it on high end speakers and hear hum and noise.

Back to original question, the reason why most people boom from above is because most framing has the face of the person being interviewed closer to top of the frame rather than bottom thus if the soundman booms from above they can get the mic closer to the source of sound.

You are working with sub par sound gear if your main source of audio is VideoMic, so you have to ask yourself if you are doing it as a hobby or are actually thinking of pursuing this as a carrier. If it's the second one then there is no reason to struggle and just go ahead and invest in a good mic (Rode NTG2) + accessories + pre-amp adapter (juicedLink). The boom will sound better then the lav as per this video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb_LEvc54WQ"]YouTube- Comparison of shotgun mic (Rode NTG2) to lav mic (Sennheiser G2)[/ame]

You need to listen to this test on good speakers otherwise you are fooling yourself as you assume that people out there use crappy speakers like yours - while in reality people use a HUGE variety of speakers so just because you can't hear the difference - like in that Azden video above - doesn't mean others won't.

Then if you have some money left you buy yourself a wireless unit as a back up. The Sennheiser G2 works well.