Zoom H2 as external mic

[Terfyn]

Everything is relative. You can increase the sensitivity of the mic in but you may get a slight noise increase. The blog discusses the effects of analogue gain compared with digital gain. (complex but I suspect that we are reading the views of the "cream" of audio anoraks). The proof is in the testing, your Rode may perform better depending on the amp it uses.
Zoom seem keen to support their products so a firmware update may be forthcoming. Remember the H2 is a new kid on the block being only four or five months old.
Play with various combinations, including the on board mics.
I play mine back through a Bose wave radio and my Yamaha EL-900 organ sound system. Very satisfying.

[zephyrnoid]

OMG! I love Sacred Music. You're right. It would be FANTASTIC in a Cathedral!

RE:"imagine recording an interview across a table, it is ideal."
Well, for an AUDIO ONLY conversation of 12 highly vocal correspondents at a big conference table or maybe 'in the round'- sure.
But how would H2 be more useful in a 1 to 1 chat? I've used the Sony ECM-MC907 in that application for years. No problem.
In the case of a whole gaggle of people talking, with only one camera and the H2 sitting in the middle of the conference table, you'll record every speaker equally, even though the camera is only pointed in one direction at a time- That could be horribly problematic. Now for multicam applications- definitely yes! then you can just set the H2 up as a 'catch-all' conference recorder and use it instead of individual table mics/ Lavs etc.
Like I said- It's forte is really 90º,120º + Surround Sound applications (Such as ambient audio capture). If you need a good mic-pre, the money is better spent elsewhere on dedicated devices.
I'll grant you all- It does a Lot for $200!! I'd wait for it to drop to around $150 and snag it up then

It is not designed as a camcorder mic but, imagine recording an interview across a table, it is ideal.
It also is brilliant as a voiceover mic, USB connection, and it records perfectly into Studio.
As I said above, I also use mine as a player of CDs (IPod?) The organ at the Anglian Cathedral in Liverpool sounds fantastic with brilliant bass!

Worley. What SD card did they supply with your H2?

[Rikki]

It depends on whether the mic is self powered. I found that the self powered mics have a lower volume input than the non powered mics (with plug-in power set to ON). My little Azden Lavalier (used with a wireless system normally) sounds OK.
The recorded sound is really good IMHO. Try http://www.oreillynet.com/digitalmed...der_detai.html a blog site for the H2, you will find recordings made on the unit for comparison.

Sorry to dig up an older post but would this unit work well with the ATR35r ?

Thanks

R

[Terfyn]

Don't know sorry. Try the blog shown in your quote, there may be an answer there. It will work but I'm not sure how well.

[arenson]

Hi

I read your posts from several months ago after asking about connecting an external mic (AT822). Since I have had some problems with the connector and adaptor for the XLR plug coming from the mic (stereo mic), I noticed that you CAN use this product as a mic.

This sounds like good news.

My friend uses the h4 in radio interviewing. I would use it or the h2 in the same way with the HV20, plus possibly small coffee house concerts, plus, if I read you right, as an ipod alternative, plus a mic for my own broadcasts.


1) I wonder how it compares to the AT822 in terms of sound performance, especially in recording voice and guitar (acoustic). I actually have two non powered Shure mics and stands, but for situatioins where carrying a lot of equipment is a problem, I wonder how servicable they are.

2) Also, how about as an on-camera mic. Is there any advantage over the built in, do you find. Mostly I would give the mic for the person to hold if outside and place on a table between us if we are both on camera.

3) how does it work from a distance compared to the onboard mic?

4) Also, I am not quite sure about the differences between the h2 and h4....if both will work.

Thanks.

By the way I lived in Broettom in 1975 (I spake Danish still a bit, which worked
for me in Norway.

Tak skal du have!

paul

[tlindaas]

I don't have any experience with the AT822 so I'm afraid I can't answer that qurstion. Regarding question two I would definitely say that the HV20 works as a mic replacement for the HV20. I have used it extensively on my travels so far and it has been flawless. Only problem it eats batteries, has to feed it another two every four hours of use.

I have both the H2 and the HV20 in a small shoulder bag, the H2 in a small pocket facing forwards. 1 meter cable going from the H2 to the H20 mic input. When I want to record I turn on H2 and H20 and shoot. The biggest advantage with placing the mic away from the camera is that you get a recording without that horrible motor noise, and noise from the zoom and your fingers on the camera. If you think about screwing the H2 onto the H20, some of that noise will disappear but not completely, it is still too close to the action.

Regarding H2 vs H4 I don't know much about the differences. The H4 is significantly bigger, and somewhat older. Maybe some other members have experience with both.


By the way, I am currently in Rio, looking forward to the visual extragavanza of the carnival. Will work myself up to north america during the spring :-)

[arenson]

[QUOTE=tlindaas;49944]I don't have any experience with the AT822 so I'm afraid I can't answer that qurstion. Regarding question two I would definitely say that the HV20 works as a mic replacement for the HV20. I have used it extensively on my travels so far and it has been flawless. Only problem it eats batteries, has to feed it another two every four hours of use


Thanx for the response. I hope you are having a good time in Rio. I succumbed and got an H2 yesterday. I couldn't resist since it did all these things. I have not tried it, but I did find in a camera store something that fits into the Canon hot shoe and terminates in a tripod type screw. That allowed me to screw on the H2 (at a height about 3/4 of an inch above the hot shoe). I will report on how it sounds.

---> BTW, before I do, is it really ok to attach a non electrical thing to the hot show in the first place. From the posts I have seen, it seems ok. I am also wondering about whether some isolation might be necessary from the camera body to cut down on any sound carried by the part (I forget now if it is plastic or metal).

I have read here that the part is fragile on the HV20 and better on the
HV30. I attached it by widening the gap between the attachment and the hotshoe, then turning a dial to tighten.

In any case, I can also screw on a microphone holder and try out my AT822 as well with this arrangement to compare.


The thing came only with a Japanese menual, but I see there is an English one online. It will be faster to play with it using the English manual!!!


So, if I understand you, you are keeping both camera and mic in the bag when you shoot?

I am trying to envisage it.

I will also try out my setup in the coming weeks and report on it.

1) H2 on camera body (maybe adding a piece of some absorbent material between the mic and the hotshoe, like felt.

2) H2 wth longer wire attached in various settings.

3) Mics plugged into H2 (does this cancel out the built in ones?)

4) The guy at the store implied my two passive mics would also work...will see.

5) When you use the USB, can you do things in reverse and copy a CD to the H2 without having to use line in in real time?


I did not get the H4 because it seemed that simplicity of use was more important.

So you will be in N and S America a lonnnng time. I envy you!

Have fun!

[nolonemo]

1) I wonder how it compares to the AT822 in terms of sound performance, especially in recording voice and guitar (acoustic).

I have both the H2 and the AT822, and I would say that the AT822 sounds more "alive" with somewhat better high freqency response. However, the AT822 close to the HV20 picks up motor noise very well I still have some fiddling to do to get the best setup figured out (I've only had the camera a short while).

[nzo]

Someone here was kind enough to post this useful link to the H2/H4 forum. Lots of info there.

Cheers.

[arenson]

BTW, am I correct that if I use the H2 etc or other mics, better to use the attenuator? One reason I ask is that the AT822 has that switch on it which I think also is a kind of attenuator.

paul

Again thanx for both posts.

paul

[nzo]

There are two interesting H2 podcasts, for those who would rather listen than read:

1. Zoom H2 Recorder Review
2. Monitor Mode Makes The Zoom H2 More Accessible

[tlindaas]

I pick up the camera from the bag when I shoot, and the distance to the H2 is then roughly one meter or a little less.

When you plug anything into the external mic input on the H2, it cancels the internal mics.

I haven't tried to copy wave or mp3 files to the H2, but I think that will work. So rip the CD first, in iTunes or some equivalent program, then transfer the files.

Regarding the attenuator, it seems to me that the H20 can deal with the H2's line out signal without resorting to it. I've filmed takeoffs (inside the plane) without the meter clipping, with the attenuator set to OFF. But have not double checked this by listening afterwards, i've just trusted the meter. Have to add here that I use the H2s automatic gain adjustment, maybe it keeps the signal so low that the H20 can cope.

[arenson]

Well, I have been testing the camera and the H2. But first also a note about my sound problems with the At822 mic. It was my dumb mistake. I did not have the XLR connection in snug. That said, having a big phono plug to camera adaptor DID create problems in that the weight of the connector did sometimes cause the connection to be lost to the Video and I did have to hold it up at the point where it goes into the camera.

Ok, so now that I have both machines hooked up, I was first surprised to hear too much ambient noise, even at low levels (L, M or H all were too loud.) Then I realized I had the headphone volume all the way up.

So let me stop here and ask if someone has worked out the best combination.

1) H2 onboard mic, mini connector between headphone out of H2 and Mic in of camera, headphone jack into camera.

2) No attenuation on camera.

So, where are sort of best/average positions for
a) H2 earphone b) Mic volume (green line shows up when you use the joystick and select mic, then left and right on the joystick)?

I also note that so far pretty intuitive with the H2. Like many, I learn by doing an then confirm with the manual. If I read the manual first it is too much knowledge and I don't understand. So I have found I don't actually have to record on the H2, though it might be handy for post production. Just press record button once and it works.

4) testing with other mics---> all work. Stereo mic, two mono mics into a stereo connection (Y cable). For up close, maybe those mics work better. For overall room sound, I think built in IS good. I am going out to get a shock mount.

5) The manual says point front toward solo vocals and back in the field or with a band. Upright for talking with people on both sides of the mic.

But isn't it upright in the first two cases? Let's say I am recording a band in front of me. Don't I hold it verical and not horizontal. But won't it still get the stuff on the front of the mic (audience?)

So
Audience Front | Back band
Audience back | Front vocal
Interviewer back | Front interviewee

This is all in 2 chaannel/

I don't hold the mic down, right?

front_____ back____
back front

(That's why I can't read manuals!!)

5) And a bit of a related thing.....when I try to record video onto my Mac hooking it up to IMOVIE works fine. Hooking it up to QuickTime Pro works fine for audio but not for video. It tells me there is no connection. maybe a QT anomaly.


Thanks!

[tlindaas]

Regarding sound levels; I tried going manual in the beginning but it is too cumbersome. You end up with the sound both clipping and being too low because you don't have time and fingers and skills enough to ride the gain levels manually in realtime. Also it is a drag to check levels before you can shoot. So now I use autogain both in the HV20 and the H2. Check the H2 manual page 37. I listened to the different options and chose AGC1 as the standard setting.
The automatic gain feature overrides the L, M and H gain settings, so you don't have to worry about them either.
Also there is an easier way to get sound out of the H2, no need to fiddle with the record button, just turn on the monitor function, and from then on there will always be sound in the line out/headphone output when the H2 is on. Manual page 79. So I turn on the H2' power button when I want to record something, and turn it off when I'm done.

The normal recording position for the H2 is upright. When you only record what's in front of you, you can also say that it should be facing forwards. But when you record both front and back, it is not correct to say "face it forwards". It is better to just say that it should be in the upright position (where the microphones are closest to the subject.)

[arenson]

i am off to record a lecture that may be on the web at some point and as I don't know the size of the room or my distance from the speaker, have brought the HT, regular XLR AT822, tripods,etc. have not read whole manual (my weakness) but think I can manage and learn from my mistakes. I like the fact that when you plug in stereo mics you cannot record in 4 channel or 4 mic setting (logical).

Will let you know how it goes.

PS

I founmd METRO (like Cakewalk) imports the video after saving as QT in IMOVIE and I can add reverb, delay etc automatically as it puts the audio in its own track for modification. Very nice if you happen to have this or similar programs.


paul

[arenson]

Very good results at the meeting, which had speakers about 2 meters (6 feet) from where I was at the right front. So I used 2 channel front. Then when members of the audience were asking the speaker questions, I turned on 2 chanel surround, just in case their voices were not picked up by the mic. (They were for the most part). I am editing now and may post some excerpin anyone wants to see/hear.

Now a question. The H2 has a hole for the very little tripod, the stick, or some other camera tripods.

In fact, I had the H2 Canon mounted with a little adaptor for the hot show that works ok...you have to be careful as the adaptor doesn't slide all the way in. It seems it is designed so that the adaptor only goes about 2/3 the way in towards the front of the hot shoe.

I was hoping to use the HT with the stick with the At shock mount I picked up. Except that the shock mount thrread is waaaaaaay too big. It is designed for mic stands. But i have mic stands with a smaller thread. I imagine they may make some adaptor. Meanwhile, the stick plug broke off--ity is only glued in. Too weak. So now I am in the market for a replacement.

Actually this is what I am looking for--->

SHOCK MOUNT
|......thread too large. Either I get an adaptor or a new mic stand.


H2
screw hole.......very small---need a new stick to screw into it so that
I can put all into the shock mount.

It seems that there are three sizes:

wide mic stand thread (Shock mount)
narrower mic stand thread (mine)
even narrower tripod thread (H2)

paul

[alanz]

I'm not quite sure what you're looking for in a shock mount... but if portability is key, you might try making something along the lines of the one I made for myself. It would be conceivable to mount this in the camera's shoe or on a bracket. It's got a standard 1/4x20 thread, and as you can see, I use it with the H2's stand.



For more text and photos, please click here

[arenson]

That is really nice. Unfortunately I am not good with my hands. And since I already have a shock mount I will first try the route of seeing if there is an adaptor for the sleeve size.

I was surprised that there are several sizes of screws for tripods (at leat one) and mic stands (at least 2). In this case I have mic stands with the smaller of two sizes and a mount that fits the bigger, plus Zoom, which uses the even smaller tripod size.


I will let you know what I find out.

By the way, is there any other stick that will fit the bottom of the H2?
Or do I have to write to Zoom for a replacement?


paul

[tlindaas]

I advocated the use of autogain earlier but I feel that I should correct myself a bit. Autogain is fine when there is a lot going on soundwise, like in a busy street. But if there are portions of relative silence, and if you are indoors, autogain increases gain so that "small" sounds and noise from the audio recorder itself reaches ridicously high levels. The sound of the fridge mixed together with hiss from the recorder at nearly the same high level as the sounds you are really interested in recording. Not good.

Also here I should mention that in these situations it will get even worse if you don't use the attenuator. The attenuator lowers the recording level so that there is room on top for some higher, standout sounds before the HV20 clips. Like talking near the microphone. If there is no room here, you will end up with the scenario described above, even more pronounced. The fridge will sound as loud as your voice.

Another bad scenario for using the autogain is recording music. The autogain react to the bass and bassdrum especially, since these instruments move the most air/ has the highest sound pressure level. So then your recording level constantly fluctuates. The result is a really amateur-sounding recording.

In these situations there is no other option than going the cumbersome way of manual sound level. Get a good signal on the H2, then replicate that sound level on the the HV20, using only manual controls.

[nolonemo]

You can get adapters that go between the various threads, Google will find them. I made a handle for my H2 by taking a length of broomstick, drilling the end, screwing a 1/4-20 thread bold into it, and cutting off the head of the bolt.

[vince]

I wonder whether there is any noticeable quality advantage of using the USB connection over the line out connection from the H2. I record directly to my computer. The USB connection has an advantage of powering the H2 so I don't have to worry about batteries.

[arenson]

re Auto Gain--> thanks. AGC worked ok in the auditorium, but you are right, it was wierd in my own room with the airconditioner going ...Silence and noise would alternate in response to the heater cutting on and off.

So then your recommendation is AGC off, choose H, M, or L, and get a signal that doesn't clip, then use the mic level control to get a signal level that is not to high or low?

And then once that sound if ok, do it manual in the Canon. Ok...

---->
One thing I am confused in the manual is whether the AGC not only overrides the H, M and L but also the mic level?
<----


Oh, I bought some connectors as was suggested. I will post a picture as soon as I get my Shock Mount back from Audio Technica (before I realized there were adaptors, I went and tried to replace the mic stand sleeve and lost the pin!!)

best,

paul

[nolonemo]

arenson, read this thread on the Zoom H2 forum, it will explain how the H2 processes audio and how to get the best results. The consensus is to not use AGC or limiter, set to L/M/H as appropriate, and keep digital levels at or near 100, and make and needed gain adjustments in post processing. The people there have really looked at the H2 in depth.

http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9745

[arenson]

Yes, very informative. And now I see why my At822 mic is not great with the
Zomm H2. Now I can check and see how it works with the Canon HV20. If it works ok, then i have two possibilities: H2 as the main mic and AT822 as a backup directly to the camera in case the H2 loses power, etc.

I have found a way to have either located on a stand close or far from the camera, or on the camera itself (both with a shockmount).

Thnks for posting it.

[arenson]

I thought i saw that one can use the H2 as an Ipod...and the manual does not seem to say you can't, but so far every Mp3 or Wav file I have moved over does not play. Invalid file. Am I missing something?