THE tape info thread

[brianbuys]

I've been using panasonic camcorder for past couple years and my new HV30 just got delivered today!

i would say there's no difference except the life expectancy of the tapes (like with VHS) BUT from my experience, i found sony camcorders and panasonic camcorders record to and read from the same tape differently. For example, I took a tdk recorded tape from a sony camcorder and tried to import it to my PC using my panasonic camcorder. it would go crazy and it would take me a few hours or trying and re-trying sections to import just one tape.

But then, if i took a tdk recorded tape from my panasonic and try it out on the sony, it would work just fine.

So not sure if this has to do with brands, or quality, or whatnot, but does may mean a specific brand of tape may work best with a specific brand of camcorder?

[CycleWriter]

After reading much of this and other threads I feel compelled to interject something that seems to be lost on a number of people. Remember that we are talking about digital here. That means the recording of 1s and 0s. That means that there will be absolutely no difference in picture quality between one brand or type of tape and another when used in the same camera. The only difference will be in the susceptibility to dropouts and transport problems. Any issues with actual picture quality will be related to the camera and NOT the tape used to record with. All tapes are equally as good at picking up the data from the camera, but some are better at preventing dropouts or causing transport jams. That said, there is a difference in tapes that does not affect PQ, but can affect device life. More expensive tapes tend to use finer magnetic particles that cause less wear and tear on the record heads over time. They also often have better transport mechanisms that resist jamming better and put less wear on the camera's drive system. These considerations alone are often the best argument for using premium tapes, but PQ is a moot point as far as digital goes.

[meall]

After reading much of this and other threads I feel compelled to interject something that seems to be lost on a number of people. Remember that we are talking about digital here. That means the recording of 1s and 0s. That means that there will be absolutely no difference in picture quality between one brand or type of tape and another when used in the same camera. The only difference will be in the susceptibility to dropouts and transport problems. Any issues with actual picture quality will be related to the camera and NOT the tape used to record with. All tapes are equally as good at picking up the data from the camera, but some are better at preventing dropouts or causing transport jams. That said, there is a difference in tapes that does not affect PQ, but can affect device life. More expensive tapes tend to use finer magnetic particles that cause less wear and tear on the record heads over time. They also often have better transport mechanisms that resist jamming better and put less wear on the camera's drive system. These considerations alone are often the best argument for using premium tapes, but PQ is a moot point as far as digital goes.

So I guest I can go Wall Mart and buy tapes there as long as they are not "no name brand" and I will have no problem using them. The main recommendations I found in this thread is: keep the same brand, and buy a head tape cleaner of that same brand and you should be ready to go. Right?

[Lunchbox]

What he said is true about shooting multiple takes if possible. That's something we can learn from his post. On top of that, should shoot some b-roll footage too.

[Erik Bien]

DamoRais,

A few suggestions:

1. Buy a head cleaning cassette, preferably the same brand as the tapes you're using.
2. Don't reuse tapes.
3. My recollection of the endless discussion around here of 'which tape is better' is that users of Panasonic tapes are generally happier than users of Sony tapes. I'm a happy, mostly dropout-free Panasonic user.
4. Are you familiar with the saying "it's a poor workman who blames his tools"? If cleaning the heads and switching brands don't cure your problem, have it serviced or exchanged under Canon's warranty.

[meall]

Erik Bien,

So, does my Maxell are so bad compare to Panasonic? I have not found that brand yet (pana) in store nearby, but can look and return those Maxell if that is that bad!

[CycleWriter]

OK, it appears a follow-up is necessary.

As I said, with digital there is no difference in PQ from one brand to another. All you're recording is a stream of 1s and 0s. Back in the analog days, especially with music, tape formulations were a bigger deal. Not only did they affect quality (in the case of music they could impact the dynamic range significantly, bad tape=no highs and muddy lows), but companies went to great lengths to develop better formulations. Back then there were dozens of manufacturers (although BASF supplied the raw tape for most of them), but today there are so few because the tape is now an almost insignificant part of the equation. With digital the transport mechanism is the most important part. That said, there is some difference between cheap and premium tapes that makes spending more for better tape a good idea. Cheap tapes tend to be dirty, i.e. they lose more particles as they pass over the heads, capstan and pinch rollers. Over time, these particles can interfere with the smooth movement of the tape and create odd magnetic fields, which can also lead to dropouts. There is an abrasive aspect to dirty tapes, as well. Back in the day Maxell was considered a dirty tape. Unfortunately, they were considerably cheaper and therefore ubiquitous in retail outlets making them popular with consumers. I still shy away from all Maxell recording media because of my experience with them.

As was said, dropouts are a fact of life with ANY tape camcorder, regardless of price. The most you can hope for is that they are few and far between and that they rarely happen at a critical time in your recording. Any mechanized transport system is prone to recording errors, even film suffers from this. A simple voltage spike is sufficient to cause enough wow and flutter of the drive motor to result in a recording anomaly. The best defense is to use quality media and develop a regular cleaning routine. The vast positive responses of those using Panasonic media tells me that one should seriously consider following that lead.

[meall]

Back in the day Maxell was considered a dirty tape. Unfortunately, they were considerably cheaper and therefore ubiquitous in retail outlets making them popular with consumers.

OK, understood! They're going back to Wall Mart tomorrow!

Where those Pana tapes can be found in retails in Canadian stores? I just don't want to run all the city to search for one retailler

[Lunchbox]

What does PQ mean, anyway, other than Province of Quebec I've been trying to figure that out and could not get it!

Sorry.. Picture Quality

There's a PQ line of Panasonic tape. That means Professional Quality.

[meall]

Hi,

Finally bought today the sony premium tapes, as they are easier to find here in my (little) town. I returned the Maxell as recommended here.

So far, I may need to find a source for cheaper tapes in (or delivered) Canada...

I saw that clip with 4 tapes, and could not really see the differences in PQ.

[Lead]

I only got my HV30 yesterday and one of the first things I did was to look into which tapes to buy. I was a little annoyed that the camera didn't come with a tape (but I soon got over it) so settled on buying a single Panasonic DVM60 tape from my local AV shop to tide me over. It cost me £3.99!

I've now spent a few hours reading this thread, and others, and trawling the web for the best buys on tapes.

I've accepted the arguement on PQ, but still opted to buy the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ MASTER for other reasons.

I ended up getting them from here: APR Media Centre. They seemed to be the best value. (I'm in the UK.)

[chaos2k]

Im using the sony dvm60pl tapes basically because they are easily availible to me. from what ive read on this thread most people prefer the pana pq tapes.. I am happy with the PQ of the sony tape. but after reading this deabete on wet vs dry can anyone tell me if these sony tapes are going to DAMAGE? my hv20. if so ill switch brands but if its just a preference thing ill stay with the sonys since i can get them here without shipping cost..

Thanks
Brian

[chaos2k]

There is no picture quality difference in which tape you use. I'll let Cyclewrite tell you this

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=75015#post75015

I understand that Taky but my question was will the sony tapes "DAMAGE" the hv20 over time? If so then id chage brands.. but if the pana tapes are just out of preference then ill prob stick with sony only bacause i can get them here wihtout shipping

[Lunchbox]

From what you said, I don't think you understand

.. I am happy with the PQ of the sony tape...

Where did you read that Sony tapes will damage the head? It was just mixing different brands with wet/dry lub that clog the recording head.

I always enjoy buying from Amazon with free shipping and no sale tax.

[chaos2k]

ok i guess i should not of put that in there since i understand the quality is the same on all. but any input on if the sonys with the "wet" tape will cause damage?

ive read that some say sony is no longer wet, seems to be a debate

EDIT: i called canon canada and they recommend use dry tapes so now im gonna call sony and see if can put to rest that they use wet or dry. if they use wet anyone know places in Canada wiht decent shipping to get pana pq tapes?

Update: so i called sony Canada and they had no idea if its wet or dry

[darkprints]

ok i guess i should not of put that in there since i understand the quality is the same on all. but any input on if the sonys with the "wet" tape will cause damage?

ive read that some say sony is no longer wet, seems to be a debate

EDIT: i called canon canada and they recommend use dry tapes so now im gonna call sony and see if can put to rest that they use wet or dry. if they use wet anyone know places in Canada wiht decent shipping to get pana pq tapes?

Update: so i called sony Canada and they had no idea if its wet or dry

Some thoughts:

- Sony recommends Sony tapes.
- Panasonic recommends Panasonic tapes.
- Canon recommends Canon tapes.

- Does anyone really believe Sony would sell tape that damages heads?
- How long will people perpetuate the myth that Sony still uses wet lube?
- Has anyone looked at a Sony tape? Does it look wet?

- If switching brands causes head damage, all the rental houses would go broke.

- If you're concerned about switching brands, use a head cleaning tape first.

[jabloomf1230]

It's possible that most of these tapes are "badged" anyway. They probably are manufactured in the same factories in mainland China. The only things that are different are the jacket design and the tape specifications, both of which are dictated by the corporation wearing the "badge". Some of the cost differential is related to the prestige of the company name and some is related to the actual specifications. Trying to tease those two factors apart is very difficult. Hence most people are comfortable with the assumption that all mini DV tapes are equivalent.

[moya]

What is the difference b/t all the different tapes by the SAME manufacturer?
For example, one guy says "I use Panasonic PV tapes" someone else says "Oh no, the Panny PZ series is the best" and so on.

I bought a 5-pack of Panasonic tapes when I bought my HV30 (which I shot my first hour of HD video last night! Just the view outside my window...but at least I used the cam!).

The Panasonic tapes I have are marked like this on the back:

>PP<
AY-DVM60EJ

Is this a good tape? Crap tape? Why is your PZ series better than whatever series (PP?) mine is? Smaller magnetic particles? Better tape substrate quality? Ball bearings? (j/k)

I am thinking about only using one brand/type of tape in my HV30 to avoid dropouts/head contamination/problems. But I want to buy good stuff.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Mitosh]

I just picked up a HV30 at BestBuy and HD & non-HD Sony Tapes, I was under the impression HD was not needed, but the salesman assured me they were. As suspected, from this forum it is clear they are not required.

But I am not ready to use them yet (I will return the HD) after reading about the comments about Wet/Dry, I am sure using the sony's, I will be fine, as long as I stick with them.

But if I have not used any tape, what is the best option. Should I stick with dry so I don't have to worry about anything if for whatever reason I use another brand (non-dry but this isn't likely as I will just bulk up on tapes).

Someone commented Sony's are better if you want to rerecord on tapes, which is possible, but wouldn't be often.

In a nutshell, the tapes at BestBuy, are really expensive, so I will likely just order some. I am basically thinking about either the Panasonic or Sony. Both seem to be less than $3 so price is very good (about half what I have now).

I only want to make this decision once, especially if I drop a "wet" tape in.

Sony is purchasable locally, albeit expensive but I would be able to "shoot" tomorrow. If I go panasonic, I would most likely have to order online, but the camera is about 50 dollars cheaper (I got bestbuy down to $850 because I bought the warranty but then I found it for 56 cheaper on amazon).

I normally do not buy warranties, but I opt'd as it is dropage/water protection. Pretty much everything but stolen/lost.

The sony's I have are DVM60PRRRX/5 for $29.99.

What is the difference between PQ and AMQ?

[meall]

What is the difference between PQ and AMQ?

For PQ read further in this thread, you'll see that there is no difference at all. Why? Because it is digital recording (0s and 1s), no image a recorded really on your tapes.

[Mitosh]

For PQ read further in this thread, you'll see that there is no difference at all. Why? Because it is digital recording (0s and 1s), no image a recorded really on your tapes.

I gather that, but someone mentioned they were going from PQ to AMQ tapes, and I didn't know if it was because of a specific lube for re-recording or something along those lines. I accept the fact there is no difference between HD and non-HD and brands in terms of picture quality, that's common sense as it is digital. But I am concerned about "wet" tapes causing problems in general and if I switch to non-wet tapes, plus I am concerned with durability and drop out.

My biggest concern is if I should open the Sony tapes or just order some dry tapes online. It seems once you go Sony you need to stick with them. But a few people commented Sony may be better friendly to re-writing (and someone mentioned I think AMQ may be as well). So in the content of my question, there is a lot of differences I am concerned about.

[Mitosh]

I am leaning towards going with Sony tapes, although my initial concern is because they seem to be the only ones with "wet" tapes it may be a bad thing. But looking around different forums and different areas, it seems like Sony Premium tapes have a fairly good reputation. And it appears Canon tapes are also considered "wet", so it may be just fine.

It will also allow me to use it tomorrow when we go out with it the first time with my 11 month old son without having to wait for tapes in the mail even though they are 3x the price of mail order.

Unless someone comes up with something convincing by some time tomorrow afternoon, I am going to assume this is good enough choice as long as I am consistent with using Sony.

On another note, great thread and even more so great forum. As a new user who is just charging the first batteries, I can't believe how many mistakes I would have made if I did not find this forum.

I probably would have mixed Sony other tapes, or bought JVC (which I want to stay away from). It is likely I would have recorded on a tape more than once. And I would have been buying HD tapes as I wouldn't have known better, at least for a while as I do research.

[Lunchbox]

I always shoot with the 63 min tapes. Haven't tried the 83 min. But there're enough horror stories about 83 min giving extra load to the tape transport mechansim.

[CycleWriter]

I always shoot with the 63 min tapes. Haven't tried the 83 min. But there're enough horror stories about 83 min giving extra load to the tape transport mechansim.

I have also read that the 83 minute tapes are made thinner in order to take up the same amount of space in the shell and that this sometimes causes them to get stretched resulting in dropouts or playback/capture problems. I can't say if this is true, but it seems to make sense and is enough for me to stay away from them.

[alexta6]

1. Is it okay if i switch from Panasonic AY-DVM60EJ2 to DVM63PQ without cleaning the head?

I can't find the Panasonic DVM63PQ tapes anywhere in store (Bestbuy and Fry's) Does anyone know where you can get them for cheap in San Diego, CA? I wanted to order from Taky but my camcorder is arriving tomorrow so I want to test it out first.
So I got the Panasonic AY-DVM60EJ2.

2. Did I get the right head cleaner?

I also got the Panasonic AY-DVMCLA head cleaner , but when I read the instruction, it says that "Do not use cleaning tape more often than necesary. Frequent use may cause head damage." the Packagin also says that "Not for regular maintenance".