Newsflash: BASF makes the substrate for about 85% of all the tape brands out there, name brand or cheapie. Formulations and particle concentrations may differ by brand, but the basic tape is about the same no matter the cost of the finished tape product.
CycleWriter,
I had suspected that most DV tapes came from few OEMs and your claim that 85% of all stock being produced by one maker seemed quite reasonable, however are you sure about BASF?
I did a quick check and came up blank (forgive the pun).
BASF is German chemical company. The magnetic tape operation was farmed out to a French company, Agfa-Gevaert, which it acquired in 1991 and named it BASF Magnetics. This operation was sold to a Korean textile company in 1997 and renamed EMTEC which filed for bankruptcy in 2003.
Some of EMTEC's assets were purchased by The Dexxon Group (France), mainly the EMTEC brand. As of 2004 The Dexxon Group employed 150 people.
I was thinking about companies like Hitachi and TDK, with a track record in tape manufacture. Back in the 70s there was Memorex, which launched audio cassettes with the famous Ella Fitzgerald ad,. but Memorex got out of the tape business.
Just before I made the decision a few weeks ago to opt for a HV 30 over a Sony HDR-HC9, I researched on the useage of mini dv tape qualities and coming from the consumer analogue world way back when Sony Hi8 metal tapes gave so many problems and being involved in the computer world I did wonder what the manufacturers could offer in the form of HDV tapes considering they are in fact used for digital information. The helical scanning in the HV 30 of course uses the same basic equipment as standard dv but has to pick up considerably more information from the tape with HDV, any low particle count on the tape would certainly cause error correction to kick in and at worst dropouts and artifacts. I would assume that HDV tapes are coated with slightly finer particles and go through more discerning error detection checks. Canon states: for special events we recommend HDV tapes (or words to that effect). Having said that I have been using a Panasonic DVC ME DVM60 in HDV mode and also transfered it to a Mac PPC laptop with no problems, no sign of any glitches so far.
I can imagine that most users will have few problems with normal cooking dv tapes but you take the risk, if part of the tape is weak HDV will show it up immmediately.
Hey John, welcome aboard!
It is reasonable to assume that HDV tapes offer the consumer quality and value for money. Another reasonable assumption is that the supplier is ripping off its customers with sharp branding.
At $18.95 a slice, for the Sony HD tape, I prefer the latter assumption.
Happy shooting with your new HV 30.
Cheers,
HnR
swapping different tapes
When I first got my hv20, I used ordinary mini dv tapes to videotape footage. Then, I thought the sonys HDV tapes would probably look better since they were HD and more expensive. Everytime I used a different brand or different kind, the camera says "Tape heads need cleaned" or something like that ... so I stuck with the sony's, and am kind of regretting I did cause they're expensive and I'm poor. I would like to go back to regular tapes, but am afraid of messing up the camera because of the "wet"/"dry" tape makeup, and different lubricants used in different tapes. Has anyone tried to change tapes?
Honestly you should find one type of tapes you like and use those exclusively (either wet or dry lube). Swapping back and forth between different types can cause premature fatigue on the heads. HOWEVER, if you need to switch types, run a head cleaning tape for 10 seconds before swapping (please try to limit the head cleaner to 1 use per 50 hours on the heads as it is abrasive!). I personally prefer the dry tapes.
...and make sure the tape cleaner is a 'DRY' type. According to the manual, 'WET' type can damage the camera.
HnR
Different Tapes
This isn't really about which tape to buy, but how many.
Reading around here quite a bit before I buy my hv20, I thought I read somewhere that using the same tape over and over could damage the camera and result in cleaning more.
How is this true? I have a miniDV tape from last year while I was in high school video news class and was wondering if I could use that one? And only that one. I don't plan on shooting TONS and TONS of video. I've got one project I plan on shooting which might total to be more than 30 minutes of film (in a perfect world with no mistakes) but it's not all in one day. It would be like:
Shoot as much as we can
Go home
Import
Organize
Edit a little
Shoot again
So does this mean I'd need multiple tapes to keep the camera up? Instead of just rewinding and recording over the previous footage?
Am currently waiting for delivery of my HV30 and have been examining this forum for info about the camcorder. I have used Sony, Panasonic, TDK, JVC, and many other brands of miniDV tape. I currently use Panasonic 3ccd camcorders and tape local sports events for a local video company to be aired on the local cable channel. My current workhorse camcorder has been used constantly for the last 2 years. A great camcorder. They provide the tapes (83 minutes tapes) and I have yet to experience any dropouts or have tapehead or transport problems. The tapes they provide are of various brands and many have been taped on before. Personally I don't think there is an issue with tape brands (wet vs dry) anymore. I am looking forward to getting the HV30 and entering into the HD world. This is a really great site for camcorder info!
The personal experiences of many in here would tend to disagree with you.Originally Posted by gorebs
Life expectancy of recorded Mini-DV tapes
Just wondering how long the original recorded tapes will last under good conditions.
Best HD tape for backup...
Can someone suggest the best HD tape format for backing up a project. I have a hard drive backup already, but want to export the project onto videotape as well for backup.
Should you use regular HDV mini-DV tape when you export from FCP, or will you lose quality? Is there a better, higher quality HD tape you should use?
Regards.
In reading this thread it should be obvious that there is no difference in picture quality between MiniDV and HDV tapes, it's all digital data. I woulkd also not expect to see much difference in the longevity of one tape type to another. If you use quality tape from a major brand for your original recording, then you already have the best backup medium possible. Just store your original tapes in a safe place and do not reuse them. If you want to archive your edited projects back to tape, then the same brand/type you originally used should be fine.
I hate to ask another evil "tape reusing" question, but it's different.
OK I have thoroughly read through the threads and posts on here about the sins of reusing MiniDV tapes, although multiple people have said that they have reused them without issue.
My question has to do with the HV30s ability to use AV/IN, to bring in analog video/audio and record it to MiniDV. Have a bunch of old home movies on VHS, and would like to bring these into the computer for backup. I realize that DVD is not the last format that things will ever be backed up in, and have also read that tape is the best format at this time for backup.
I will be building a ~4TB RAID5 media server here in the future, which I will use to store my videos on, as well as a DVD backup stored here, and one at my mother's house. The VHS tapes are nearing 20 years old already, and I'd like to get them off of there.
I do not want to waste one MiniDV tape to back up each VHS tape, I just want to transfer everything to the PC, and back it up on DVD. Will still have the VHS backup.
So, is there anything wrong with reusing the tapes for this purpose? It would save from having to buy an input card for the PC, not that my PC would even keep up with analog capture from a VCR.
Thoughts? Better options?
Thanks.
- Dave
Try a heading like "Tape reuse while transferring from VHS to my PC via my HV30?"
Anyway, why not reuse the tapes, as long as you can periodically check that there are no data errors? This is just VHS you are transferring. You can redo any tapes that transfer poorly.
Consider this, though: Every hour you transfer this way will require two hours of HV30 time.
Ron
While you certainly could do this, it is not your best option. For one, assuming your VHS tapes were recorded in SP mode it would take 2 MiniDv tapes for every one VHS. That means splitting the VHS content across two tapes. Secondly, you would be putting a lot of wear and tear on your HV as a dubbing deck and not as a camera. That's 2 hours of use per VHS tape to transfer to MiniDV and another 2 hours of use to capture that content to the PC. Depending on how many VHS tapes you plan to archive this way you could significantly reduce the overall life of your HV.
I found it much easier to use the RCA inputs on my TV tuner card (Vista Media Center PC) to connect my VCR and record directly to the PC using Cyberlink's Power Director 7 (Vegas does not support analog inputs). I still have to transfer VHS in real time, but I can do batch captures using timecode and walk away to do something else while it transfers. The resulting MPG2 files are easy to edit and create DVDs from or archive onto a hard drive. No wear on my HV, no need for additional MiniDV tapes. BTW, magnetic tape has an average shelf life of 50+ years, so your concerns for the original VHS tapes may be misplaced so long as they are stored properly and run through (FF/REW) periodically to prevent sticking.
The Panasonic PQ tapes seem to be a popular choice among here.
Is it bad to re-use mini DV tapes?
So I just got my HV30, and usually I record myself training martial arts for my personal reference.. I'm wondering if it's bad for the quality of the tape/camcorder to reuse tapes, or if there are any other notable negative effects from doing so?
I just have no need to keep the footage, and have found it much more economical to re-use. However, if it's damaging my new camcorder or quality in any way, it's probably worth it for me to spend some extra time/cash.
Thanks!
Because of all this hooplah about wasting money on premium tapes, I gave in to purchasing bargan quality to test it. After all, who woudn't want to save money?
I can now say that the pro tapes do have a fine quality, as well as more vivid and richer color.
That said, I must also point out that it depends on monitor that you'll be using since you can't see the improvement on a regular tv. In additon, the difference isn't dramatic--but is recognizable.
So unless what you're taping has to be the absolute best quality, bargan tapes would still be the better choice, especially considering pro tapes higher mark-up in price.
Last edited by Krane; 2009 January 1st at 19:47.
How can the quality of the digital tape affect the color quality of the analog end product?
I don't think that's correct. 1s and 0s don't have quality. They are either recorded or not. If the data don't get recorded because of bad tape, then there is a dropout, but if they are recorded, then the quality of the video and audio should should be the same, regardless the medium that recorded the data.
I use pro quality tape for any shoot where I need to minimize the potential for lost data do to dropouts. Otherwise I use Panasonic AMQ.
yeup. my favorite.
***ALERT*** For anyone that doesn't take the time to read this WHOLE thread, the above comments are hogwash and not to be taken seriously. THERE IS NO PICTURE QUALITY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TAPES AND BRANDS WHEN SHOOTING DIGITALLY. None, zero, zilch, nada, nein. The only difference is in the occurence of dropouts, potential for tape mechanism failure, and storage longevity. Saying that there is a picture quality difference between tapes is like saying that one media card records better looking pictures than another. Or that one hard drive stores your photos better than another.
The days of tape differences mattering to the recorded material's quality died with VHS, Hi-8 and cassette audio, all of which use analog signals. Digital signals (and therefore playback) are NOT enhanced/degraded by the tape's quality, or lack thereof, as far as picture quality goes. Cheap tapes may increase your risk for dropouts or tape transport failures, but a more expensive tape will not give you better picture quality. That is all.
Breaking News? Sony now uses a dry tape?
It takes a while but after reading many threads on HV20.com I have come to the conclusion that Sony no longer uses a wet lubricant with there MDV or HDV tapes. Is this true?
I wish some expert would chime in and let us all know because it is very hard to determine what information is the most accurate.
I would of posted this to another thread.... but I think this is the most important thing to figure out when you first start using your new HV30/HV20. That is what tape to use and to try and stick with that one tape for the life of the HV30/HV20.
Reply With Quote
