HMC150 - 720p or 1080p? 24fps (native)

[iFilm7]

I've heard alot of crap talking about 1080p saying its bad and that 720p is better...
im kinda disspointed but i would like someone to point me to the right direction because i would love to shoot 1080p but now i have doubts cuz there's some people saying 720p is better.... ahhh! please someone tell me the truth xD
i love this camera and i still haven't bought it yet and im thinking i am... i just dont want to shoot 720p because i would like the highest resolution possible for my projects....

so i should shoot 720p or 1080p?
thanks!

[badhairdude]

i havent heard anything about that. maybe that 1080p is hard on the computer and it cant record 60p but thats about it. check out dvxuser, they dedicate themselves to panasonic cameras.

[Lunchbox]

You have to judge it yourself the person who made such claim are they credible. If 720p is better than 1080p and if the logic of lower resolution is better, would 480p better than 720p too? Then you can just go get a Canon GL2 shoot in Frame mode for 480p output.

[iFilm7]

i think i found the posts on dvxuser but im not too sure.....
something about the quality degrading or something? about 1080p looking like 720p but just overblown?

[ReLogic Studios]

In many cases that is true, where 720p footage looks sharp en crisp when viewing 100% zoom, 1080p can often look soft and the footage often has indistinctive edges. This is partially because at 1080p the bitrate doesn't get cranked up(enough) to store enough bits per pixel.

I have no textual sources for this claim, and I do not say that this is the case with all camera's, it's just my experience and vision.

[iFilm7]

soo whih would be better? cuz obviously if you put underblow the 1080p to match 720p size it would look more sharper and crisp... ?

[Khaver]

720p is usually 59.94fps and 1080p is 29.97fps, thus the perceived better picture with 720p. Although at 59.94fps progressive we seem to equate this as "video" and the 29.97fps progressive is closer to the 24fps of film so it is closer to the "film" look.

[lifepo4]

I have the HMC150, because the sensor is 1/3 inch with a resolution of 960x540, its image is a little bit soft when compare to Canon and SONY HDV camcorder, it uses pixel shifting to produce a 1080p/1080i image. The sensitivity in low light is excellent, also because it uses 3CCD, the color is vibrant and does not have problem such as skew, flash banding, etc. Those SONY HDV uses CMOS, which can ruin your video when the rolling shutter kicks in.

AVCHD is also hard on your computer. So bottom line, if sharp image is no.1, don't buy this camcorder, otherwise, it is a very good one for its price.

[Seo]

Hello again iFilm7. The reasons I can think of that would make 720p better than 1080p are that the bitrate isn't sufficient, the sensors aren't capable of natively outputting 1080p without pixel shifting or interpolation, and the higher frame rate possible with a lower resolution and therefore lower minimum bitrate.

...This is partially because at 1080p the bitrate doesn't get cranked up(enough) to store enough bits per pixel...

The HMC150 can output 24mbps video, which is enough for 1080p at 24 frames a second and more than most other AVCHD camcorders. The HMC150's sensors' resolutions being somewhat small is also another reason for its 1080p output not to look as good as other camcorders. Because of this, 720p can be considered its "sweet spot".

...AVCHD is also hard on your computer...

It's only difficult for your computer to decode relative to older codecs (MPEG-2, for example). If your computer has enough processing power, AVCHD shouldn't be laggy. But note that just because your processor's clock rate is very high doesn't mean that its faster than others that have a lower clock rate. This is due to something called the "Megahertz Myth". It'd still help, however, if you post the specs of your computer.

...cuz obviously if you put underblow the 1080p to match 720p size it would look more sharper and crisp... ?

When you say "overblow" and "underblow" I believe you mean upscale and downscale. 1080p shouldn't look to badly upscaled on the HMC150, just as 24f on the XH A1 doesn't show any significant loss in resolution. And yes, downscaling from 1080p to 720p should look better than viewing 1080p (if viewed in native resolution) due to oversampling. Like I said before, however, 720p is said to be the HMC150's sweet spot, so shooting in that resolution will work great. If I were you, I'd probably shoot in 1080p with the highest possible bitrate, and switch to 720p for slow-mo shots at 60p.

[iFilm7]

sooo why would i want to shoot 1080p and use 720p for slowmo? do i downscale and as i workon the project i scale the 1080p to 720p?

btw, im thinking of CONVERTING the AVCHD to a PNG image sequence (converted my tmpgenc Xpress)

would this be alright? do i convert it to a
PNG sequence as 1080p? or to 720p and work on that in AE?

[Seo]

sooo why would i want to shoot 1080p and use 720p for slowmo? do i downscale and as i workon the project i scale the 1080p to 720p?...

Because you can shoot 720p at 60 frames per second, which is a higher resolution than you would achieve by interpolating 60 fields per second at 1080i, therefore getting a higher resolution slow-mo clip.

No, you work on the project in 1080p and export your video in 720p.

btw, im thinking of CONVERTING the AVCHD to a PNG image sequence (converted my tmpgenc Xpress)

would this be alright? do i convert it to a
PNG sequence as 1080p? or to 720p and work on that in AE?

Yes, that should work fine. Convert to 1080p.

[iFilm7]

im confused.... why would i want to convert it to 1080p if, since i will obviously put slowmo in my shots, i will use 720p for the slowmo? 720p is HALF the size of 1080p am i correct?
then why, (im very confused) would i mix these two DIFFERENT sizes together? wtf? sorry xD maybe im just missing something......

[iFilm7]

"-Not true 1080; Ive had to edit tons of 1080 footage over the past yr or so, and my first impression of the 1080 HMC footage was "Did I just get 720p footage or what?". Most users are probably aware of the limitations of the uprezzing being done in camera, but why can't panny address that with an improved imager? Footage looks good though; wish it was full raster."
- http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...40&postcount=1

"When I read the posts and reviews about the hmc150 before I bought it I was prepared for owning a "720p" cam. When I actually shot footage, I was amazed at the difference. (Also amazed at how well the codec holds up in 1080p.) At 720p it practically looks uncompressed, it's fantastic, at 1080p it looks awesome still; also, I really like how avc handles motion."
- http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showpost.p...5&postcount=11

---

see... now im confused.... Seo you tell me i should shoot 1080p
but for slowmo shots shoot at 720p....
arent they different sizes? if i want slowmo i should just stick with either shooting 720p or 1080p!?
xD im really confused right now...

[TheDingo]

iFilm7,

Most people buy the HMC150 because it creates very film-like images, which is the same reason why the DVX100 camera became a favorite for many indy / documentary filmmakers.

The "sweet-spot" for the HMC150 camera is 720P, because this is the format that produces the most film-like images.

If full raster 1080P resolution is something you are after, then you should take a look at the Sony EX-1 ( if you can afford it ), or the new Panasonic HMC40 camera which has full raster 1/4 inch CMOS imagers. The HMC40 should produce much sharper images than the HMC150, but it won't have the low light sensitivity of the HMC150. The HMC40 CMOS imagers will also have the same rolling-shutter problems that all of the other CMOS based cameras have. ( the HMC150 uses CCD imagers, so no rolling-shutter issues with this camera )

[iFilm7]

so should i just shoot at 720p?
forget about 1080p all together and ill be fine?

nd yeah xD EX-1 is HELLA expensive its like 6,000 USD right?

[1]

so should i just shoot at 720p?

If you don't go and shoot SOMETHING already,
I think I'm going to shoot myself!

[iFilm7]

hahaha duude i dont have the hmc150 yet... dint even purchase it yet

[Rumpelgeist]

EX-1 is HELLA expensive its like 6,000 USD right?

Gee, iFilm7 can use Google after all.

[TheDingo]

so should i just shoot at 720p? forget about 1080p all together and ill be fine?

Yes. 720P is the best format for the HMC150.

yeah xD EX-1 is HELLA expensive its like 6,000 USD right?

Yes. I was considering the EX-1 for a while, along with the HPX170. I dropped the EX-1 partly because of the price and partly because I prefer the Panasonic film-look. I came close to buying the HPX170, but when I started to think about the cost of buying 8 hours worth of P2 media, I quickly switched to the HMC150. I've only had the HMC150 a few weeks, but I am very happy with it. Great images, great features, easy to use.

[Jedd]

This is all good information ... thanks. 720p is great for my purposes since I'll be using the HMC150 primarily for wedding videos, and most couples want standard DVD's anyway. I don't even own a Blu-Ray drive yet. The only place they'll see their wedding in HD is online, and even then I'll be posting 720.

I'm just about sold on upgrading to the HMC150 ... it seems like a camera that will be useful for several years before a single format becomes the widespread standard.

[Rikki]

I got mine last week, went out after breifly skimming the online manual - made a balls of recording something (gain set too low) and returned with super dark footage but since the low light of the thing is great I boosted the curves in Vegas and recovered the shoot!

So far so good!

[iFilm7]

Yes. 720P is the best format for the HMC150.



Yes. I was considering the EX-1 for a while, along with the HPX170. I dropped the EX-1 partly because of the price and partly because I prefer the Panasonic film-look. I came close to buying the HPX170, but when I started to think about the cost of buying 8 hours worth of P2 media, I quickly switched to the HMC150. I've only had the HMC150 a few weeks, but I am very happy with it. Great images, great features, easy to use.

i hear shooting at 1080 and then downressing it in post to 720p to match the slowmo etc is better? like..... because of oversampling or something?

[TheDingo]

i hear shooting at 1080 and then downressing it in post to 720p to match the slowmo etc is better?

When I first got my HMC150 I shot a bunch of tests at about 40 different settings, and tried down-resing and up-resing between 720 and 1080.

When I brought the clips into my editor ( Vegas Pro 9 ), it became pretty obvious to me that 720P is the optimal format for the HMC150.

[iFilm7]

oh so i guess i should just shoot 720p and never 1080 for general filmaking and greenscreening?

[TheDingo]

According to Barry Green ( author of the DVX Book / HVX Book / and the soon to be released HMC150 Book ) the HMC150's 4:2:0 colour space is quite effective for greenscreen work when shooting 720P, but not when shooting 1080. Here's an example of HMC150 720P greenscreen:

4H Promo Video by Kurt Jewell ( plays better from the vimeo site, click the link at the top of the video box )
[ame="http://www.vimeo.com/2824779/"]http://www.vimeo.com/2824779/[/ame]