Do I really need to remove pulldown?

[amigomatt]

After reading through many posts on this fabulous, fabulous site, am I right in coming to the conclusion that i could still edit 24p footage (NTSC cam) on Vegas without removing the pulldown, i.e. captured straight from the camera in a 60i stream, and I won't run into any problems unless the person receiving my footage specifically requires 24p?

I have only just starting capturing my first footage onto my PC. I'm English, bought an NTSC HV20 from pricejapan.com for $804 inc. delivery. I had it shipped to my girlfriend's flat in Pennsylvania (where I was staying for 6 weeks over the summer) and it arrived in 2 days, couldn 't believe it! So, I've amassed about 7 hours of footage while I was over there, a mixture of different settings that I got used to as I went along and with much help from this forum. Just got back last week and I'm about to start delving into editing it all...

Some significant important shots have included:-

Baltimore Aquarium
Top of the Empire State Building at night
Times Square on a Saturday night
A boat trip around Manhattan Island on a very bright day
Footage of both daytime and nighttime storms
Lots of busy bars at night
Gig footage of me playing the trumpet in various venues over there
Lots of night shots

So, if I'm just interested in making my own home videos out of all this, can I just forget about the pulldown? Also, can I mix 24p clips with 60i ones?

Lastly, I just noticed that the very first capture I have has very jagged lines when played back on VLC player? Is that the camera or the software?

Happy filming!

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

It depends. If your final output will be devices and computers, then you SHOULD remove pulldown. If your final output is back on the camera for TV viewing, then no. Here's what you get on non-camera-TV devices when not removing pulldown:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/missilemike/494788313/
and this is what you get if you will:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/missilemike/494788323/
Here's my guide on how to do so for free
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/0...-24p-pulldown/

>I have has very jagged lines

If your output is computers and devices instead of camcorder/TV, then you must de-interlace.
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/0...ng-with-vegas/

[amigomatt]

Thanks Eugenia for your quick and very helpful reply! The time and effort you have put into your guide is very appreciated.

Matt.

[amigomatt]

It depends. If your final output will be devices and computers, then you SHOULD remove pulldown. If your final output is back on the camera for TV viewing, then no.

Sorry, another quick question? What category does SD DVD as final output come under?

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

I would recommend to remove pulldown for DVD, because DVD players don't know that your material is actually 24p so they won't remove (and subsequently add) pulldown during playback (while when playing via the HV20, Canon knows and takes care of that). Basically, for anything that won't be played back via the HV20 itself or other Canon HDV camera, I would recommend the pulldown removal. Others might have another opinion though...

[Frank]

Sorry, another quick question? What category does SD DVD as final output come under?

Whatever program you use to encode the footage into SD DVD MPEG-2 format will hopefully put tags on the video to let your DVD player know what format it is; i.e. interlaced or progressive. If the latter, it should additionally indicate whether pulldown should be added (by the DVD player).

Either way, you're going to get pulldown on playback.

From what I've read (here and other places), whether you remove pulldown or not, you shouldn't see a difference when viewing on TV; only a progressive 24p set would show a difference (and I don't think one exists).

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

There are 24p TV sets released in the last 3 months. It's a new thing...

[Frank]

There are 24p TV sets released in the last 3 months. It's a new thing...

Interestng, I will check it out.

[dr jones]

unless you like interlaced lines and 3x the amount of extra frames to make your cpu even slower during editing... then yea you should remove the pulldown.

[Lunchbox]

telecine/pulldown isn't a new thing invented by Canon. It's been there for years. If you have seen a hollywood movie showing on your home TV set, you have been watching those interlaced lines.

If you know how to remove pulldown, go ahead. If not, you still get a nice HD video without removing pulldown.

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

>isn't a new thing invented by Canon.

No, but HV20's required pulldown is not necessarily the same as on other cameras -- it doesn't even have attributes. This is why I would not recommend to playback a 24p-in-60i on a TV with anything else but a *recent* Canon camcorder. For all other uses the pulldown must be removed for the best quality possible.

[lordtangent]

After reading through many posts on this fabulous, fabulous site, am I right in coming to the conclusion that i could still edit 24p footage (NTSC cam) on Vegas without removing the pulldown, i.e. captured straight from the camera in a 60i stream, and I won't run into any problems unless the person receiving my footage specifically requires 24p?

Yes and no... I'll tell you excatly why...

The danger with not removing the 3:2 pulldown when you intend to only go back to 60i is that you might have "flash fields". If you look at the pattern of the 3:2 pull down you'll see there are video frames that never get a whole frame of film. Just one field of one film frame and one field of the next film frame. If you cut right on one of those frames, you'll get a little glitch that only lasts for one field. It can be hard to detect in a lot of NLEs because they just show one field to help speed up the preview. It can also mess up the field based rendering of some NLEs

So... if you choose to not remove the pulldown you should be very careful and do a little "QA" on your final work, playing it all the way though and looking at both fields to make sure you don't have any of those little glitches.

In many ways it's just easier to remove the 3:2 pulldown and edit that way. Then you are at least dealing with progressive frames at all times. And stuff like encoding movies, computer display, FX composintg, etc. all become much more simple.

[SalaTar]

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.ph...hd-dvd-players

[amigomatt]

If your output is computers and devices instead of camcorder/TV, then you must de-interlace.
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/0...ng-with-vegas/

I have just captured some clips using your settings for de-interlacing and I'm still seeing those jagged lines on everything! What am I doing wrong? (The clips in question are 24p without the pulldown removed, so is that anything to do with it?)

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

How did you export? On .m2t you will always get interlacing. My settings are valid only for WMV and .AVI -- after you tell it to "none - progressive" in the field order of the CUSTOM/VIDEO dialog when you export.

[amigomatt]

How did you export? On .m2t you will always get interlacing. My settings are valid only for WMV and .AVI -- after you tell it to "none - progressive" in the field order of the CUSTOM/VIDEO dialog when you export.

I set the project properties to what your blog says and I just noticed that when I played any of the captured files on vlc media player (yes they are .m2t), they had interlacing artifacts. So, do I just put up with that whilst editing and then de-interlace afterwards? I'm sorry I'm not understanding this very well, I thought that the vegas settings would de-interlace? Why does this not work with .m2t format? And why would anyone want to use .m2t then?

[amigomatt]

Sorry, I think I understand, the footage is interlaced anyway inside the camera? It just seems much more pronounced on my PC - I never saw any of that when playing through the camera.