Motor Noise Problem Survey
I have seen posts where people say that the built in mic picks up the sound of the motor while recording. Some say that the problem with the sound is so bad that they have returned the camera. I would like to know how many people have had a real problem with this and should this deter me from purchasing this camera.
This noise is a constant at 950 Hz. If your signal is loud enough it is not noticeable. However, if you are doing an interview it is likely to be a problem. The noise can be eliminated in post if your NLE has audio filters. Use a notch filter with a very narrow bandwidth. Set the frequency at 950 hz and pull the amplitude down as far as possible. If it doesn't get all of it just add another filter in line with the first and do it again. It's very simple to eliminate and will not effect the quality of the rest of the audio spectrum. I don't think this is a reason to not buy the hv20 if your NLE has audio filters.
Both Adobe Audition and SouthBooth has a very effective tool to perform noise reduction. You will need to sample part of the audio where only the noise can be heard. It samples it as noise profile. Then base on the noise profile, it elimiates that part of the frequency off the audio nice and clean.
Alternatives to Soundbooth/Audition (which are truely fantastic, but expensive) are Goldwave (shareware, easy, good results, but not quite as good as Audition) or Audacity (freeware, less versatile, but good for a free app).
As for the noise, if you leave the mic on AGC (ie, you let the camera decide) then there are times when the noise will be very loud and extremely intrusive.
However, if you bother to learn how to set the record level manually, the motor noise is virtually inaudible.
At least, that's my personal observation (if one can observe sound!) But I tend always to use an external mic, so there is no motor noise. And I still leave the external mic on manual.
For motor noise, use a program that has a noise print system. These come in all price ranges. Waves and Samplitude spectral cleaner.
Some of the really high end stuff is found in watered down versions the consumer line of Magix products. I don't recommend Adobe for Audio.
Magix Audio Cleaning Lab is ok. But Magix products can be seriously buggy.
Adobe Audition was originally Syntrillium Cool Edit Pro, and I must defend Adobe here. The noise reduction offered is the cleanest, most artifact free I have come across. It is truly spectacular.
My next favourite would be Goldwave. It's cheap, but surprisingly powerful. It's noise reduction tool is extremely good.
Audacity, though free, is also very good, but the noise reduction is less versatile than the others.
For price vs performance, I'd say go with Goldwave. You can download version 4.3 as a demo that works without restriction in perpetuity. But if you like it, buy it. It's worth every penny.
Hi, thanks for making this thread about the motor noise...
I just got my HV20 yesterday, and it is overall a superb camcorder,
however, the first thing I noticed when playing back footage of my baby daughter (in very quiet background) is the high pitched annoying motor buzz!!!
I primarily use Pinnacle Studio 11; does anyone know offhand where filters are found to help remove the noise?
Also are there any settings on the HV20 to cut down on the noise picked up from the mic? THANKS
Last edited by plasmo; 2007 September 15th at 23:56.
I found the noise a bit of a problem when shooting some talking head (ie. single person monologue) videos for YouTube. I used an external shotgun mic but the motor whine was still annoying (about -30dB). Yes even setting the gain manually did not help that much (it just kept the whine at a constant volume).
I have sweetened the sound in Sony Sound Forge with Noise Reduction so it is not too bad and have laid a background track of music so it is no longer a problem.
The better solution however was surprisingly simple - invest in a tie clip microphone (even a wired one). $30 - problem solved!
Dave
As I said before, the noise is a constant at 950 hz. Using "noise profile" software is not the best way. Such software is known as broadband reduction. It is designed specifically for "hiss reduction" and it will often leave artifacts and effect the rest of the audio spectrum. The best way to get rid of this is with a deep notch filter like I mentioned before. And BTW, I do this for a living. I put the motor noise in a spectrogram. It is 950 hz. A deep notch filter removes it, and with no artifacts and does not effect the rest of the audio spectrum.
Using any external mic mounted on the camera will not get rid of the motor noise. Depending on the sensitivity and polar pattern of the mic, it needs to be about a foot or so away from the camera. I have a Shure VP-88 mounted on it. Yep, the noise is still there until I remove it from the mount and get a foot or so away.
Jack (or anyone else who can answer this),
What do you do about the zoom motor noise? It's even worse than the tape motor noise? And if you try using their DM-50 mic, the handling noise is so brutal that you can't use anything if it's being hand held which sort of defeats the purpose of the camera entirely. I am not a Canon hater. I've been using a Canon L2 and then XL2 since the mid 90's and have loved them. We also have a wide array of Canon Photo Cameras which are wonderful. I also had an xi which I loved and was rock solid, but it got stolen and so for a trip we're about to start to Europe for 7 weeks where we'll be shooting probably 4-6 hours of video a day for 48 days, we got this one. And sadly, after trying everything we could to help, it's a total disaster for the way we shoot what we do. I have an old Sony Hi 8 camera that I may have to brush the dust off of and use instead, it's that bad.
The only usable config we've found so far is mounted on a tripod, with no zoom changes and the external mic connected. I use Sennheisers for the XL2, but of course those are too large for this.
If you have suggestions to get usable audio on these diverse situations we'll be in (Live Music, many head shot interviews, man on the scene interviews, and a lot of spur of the moment candid shots) I am very interested in hearing them. It's late Friday night and we leave Monday morning.
Brian
Brian Austin Whitney
Founder
Just Plain Folks Music Organization
www.justplainfolks.org
Just returned for another
Hey all. Owner of another Canon (ZR70) and needed a HD capable camera for a cable network shoot. Everyone raved about the HV20, I tested it out and liked. Bought last week on sale. Taped some stuff over the week, and when I listened, found this motor noise issue. Only after I discovered this, and stumbled upon this site did I find this was a problem (researched this model to death and this was the first I'd heard of it). Long story short, I and my girlfriend couldn't live with this motor hum (and this was even with a Rode Videomic). I dreaded the thought of moving to another brand as I love this camera. We went back to the store (HHGregg), explained the problem, they had us test another new HV20 and we couldn't detect the problem. For almost $1000 you shouldn't have to live with it. Clearly this doesn't affect every HV20, and I'd advise anyone buying this to take it out of the box at the store, record in a quiet environment (we did it in the bathroom) and listen to the tape with headphones. It's a great camera and we're both breathing a sigh of relief that we didn't have to move to something else.
Is this motor noise a sign of something abnormal?
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?p=21237#post21237
Cheers,
David.
Some shops will allow you to shoot some test footage on your own DV tape but you'd need to audition it at the same shop, uinless you have another source of HDV playback.Originally Posted by gnmg
Mine's noticable on headphone monitoring while shooting but not on a TV playback. The mics are good. I haven't played back over a HT system yet but assume the notch filter will work OK if it's a problem.
It's certainly not only 950 Hz, and I can't believe that a simple 950 Hz notch filter removes it. It probably reduces it, but it's not a "solution" - just a bodge.
Cheers,
David.
What is a tie clip microphone. Are thes attainable wireless? Do you have a link to find them on the web?
Look up Lavalier mics on Wiki. Yes you can get wireless ones, I have an old Azden wireless, only mono though.
Anyone- do any consumer grade camcorders NOT have noise problems with the built-in mics? I'm close to buying my first camcorder, the HV-20 but for this problem which is discussed here and in other video forums. I don't expect the built in mic to be premium quality, but from the complaints- it's apparently almost worthless- at least on some cameras.
Joe
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Already done, thank you!
I wouldn't consider this motor noise to be an indication of the quality of the the camera--as long as it's curable by the addition of an external mic. I suspect the pick-up of the motor noise to be a result of the decrease in the overal size of todays cameras and the application of an extremely sensitive omni-directional mic. In any event, in quite environments, it shouldn't be that big a deal to get the mic away from the camera
Last edited by Krane; 2007 October 25th at 04:39.
Hi, everybody!
For Sony Vegas users: you can try the Sony noise reduction plug-in. The functionality is similar to Adobe Audition. But plug-in can be used directly from Vegas. No additional software is needed.
Last edited by Kostushock; 2007 October 25th at 10:12.
I have the same experience as macdaddybob here.
I think that maybe the motornoise level is different from camera to camera. The first HV20 I bought had terible motornoise and I ended up returning it for a different issue.
The HV20 I now have has a very low motornoise that with the rodemic isn't audible. I suggest anyone having a problem with this testing a different one in store for comparison.
I have a new HV20 and I have 2 different levels of noise - one when it's idle (with tape and redo to record) and one much higher when it actually records (or playback). Is this normal? My *very* cheap Panasonic GS is almost soundless compared to the HV20 (not to mention the XH A1 (another price range - but probl. the same tape deck...)).
Anyone else that experience 2 levels of (very annoying) noise?
Mine is the most noticeable during focusing or when it is idle. I am going to take it back and try another one while I am there...
Do you mean that you have less noise when the deck is running that when it's idle?
The focus does not sound much on mine. The running deck is another matter.
Canon still seem to suffer from QA issues. The cassette compartment is also a bit loose (reported in other threads) - it surely does NOT feel like a premium product. Compared to my Pana the HV20 actually feels like real crap. If it were not for the image quality... Hopefully Pana will sooner or later make an equal (or better) and I'm not going to be faithful to Canon, for sure...
Tell me about it! I've been transferring some old home videos shot with a Panasonic camcorder 1991-1997, and though the picture is terrible compared with HDV, the sound, on full automatic, is a revelation - if only the HV20 was half as good!
Cheers,
David.
External Mics
I solved my obsession with the annoying noise by getting an external shoe mic.
RØDE Video Microphone.... Mono shotgun directional mic.
And
RØODE Stereo Video Microphone... (SVM) Stereo mic X/Y Condenser
The video Mic is the worlds leading video microphone (claimed) and due to it's shock mount, does not pick up any motor noise .
The SVM was born out of neccessity as the mono mic was so good, people wanted the same quality but in a stereo version. (Comes with a dead kitten wind shield too).
Check it out at RØDE's website for more info. I'm wrapped with mine. I use it also as a remote mic on various stand, and on a boom pole, as well as the cold shoe mount on the camera..
Cheers.
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