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Thread: PC: 24p capture and pulldown removal step-by-step instructions by Farnsworth

  1. #476
    Director of Photography drapeama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJITSU View Post
    2010!, what's the best and easiest way for me to get true 24p from my hv30? Details please?
    CineForm neoscene
    - telecine removal (24p extraction from 60i) while you're capturing the footage.
    - cineform codec is better with his Chroma Interpolation: 4:2:0 → 4:2:2.
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

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    Default Missing critical details for pulldown removal with AE and Premiere pro

    Tons of people have been posting alleged "step-by-step" instructions for removing pulldown, but they leave out TONS of details that are absolutely essential to get things to come out right.

    By trial and error and by pulling out tufts of hair due to missing critical details and settings, here is what I ended up with for using both Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 and After Effects to remove pulldown from HDV24 footage shot with my HV30. If you don't have Premiere CS3 and AE, I don't know what to tell you, but perhaps some clues in what I have to say will help.

    This always works for me:

    First, as others have pointed out in various places, removing pulldown is ONLY necessary when you filmed in HDV24 mode (HDV30 is okay as is) AND when you're exporting for the web. If your final destination is TV, you don't need to do this. But if you fail to do this and your video is destined for the web, you may notice some "herky jerkiness," especially with slow mo shots and fast-moving shots. If you have the HV40 camera, I don't think what I'm saying applies either.

    Anyway, the workflow, once you get it down, is pretty easy. I create a new project for my HV30 in Adobe Premiere (using the preset HDV 1080i30 (60i)) and capture all of my clips. IMPORTANT: If you recorded your clips separately (by hitting the record button, stopping, hitting the record button, stopping, etc.) you ABSOLUTELY NEED to capture these clips separately in Premiere. Do not try to caputre footage of this nature as one long clip. It won't work for removing pulldown. In Premiere you have to capture the clips truly separately, and each clip you capture has to be just that clip (NO overlap)! That is, you cannot have some of the previous clip at the beginning of the one you're capturing or some of the subsequent clip at the end. Use in/out automatic capture in Premiere to make life easier.

    Once you've captured your clips in Premiere, close that program and open After Effects. Once AE is open, go to File-->Project Settings and make sure the Timecode Base is set to 24 fps. Next, import all of your clips into AE (go to File-->Import). NOTE: I sometimes get errors when I try to import many clips at one time. To get around this, just import one clip at a time.

    Now, once you've got your clips imported into AE, you need to right-click on EACH one and select Interpret Footage-->Main. In this window, click on "Guess 3:2 pulldown" and also make sure you've got the following settings:

    Conform to rate: 29.97
    Separate fields: Upper field first
    Pixel aspect ratio: HDV 1080/DVCPRO HD 720 (1.33)

    I'm not real sure about that last one, but it seems to work.

    Remember, you have to do the above for EACH clip.

    Once you've done this to all of your clips, create a new composition (Composition-->New Composition) and use the following settings:

    Width: 1920
    Height: 1080
    Pixel Aspect Ratio: HDV 1080/DVCPRO HD 720 (1.33)
    Frame Rate: 23.976

    Okay, now what I do is I create a new, separate composition for EACH clip. Also, make sure the time length of the composition (in composition settings) matches the time length of the corresponding clip.

    Once you've created compositions for each of your clips, you'll see all of the compositions (along with all of your clips) in the Project window (upper left-hand part of the screen).

    Double-click on the first composition you created and then drag the corresponding clip into it. Then double-click on the next composition your created and drag the corresponding clip into it. Repeat this for all of your compositions and their respective clips.

    When you've done all that, add your compositions to the Render Queue. For rendering each clip, I choose "Best Settings" for the Render Settings and "Lossless" for the Output Module. You can click on the blue file name next to "Output To:" to see where it is going to put the exported file. You can change the directory then if you want.

    Now click on the Render button and wait. This can take a while. Hopefully you have a six pack.

    FYI, if you want audio with your exported clips, click on "Lossless" (in blue) next to Output Module and make sure the "Audio Output" box at the bottom is checked. The default, I believe, is that it is not. Very inconvenient and annoying. I sometimes forget, and nothing aggravates me more.

    Anyway, once all of your clips have rendered, you'll create a BRAND NEW Adobe Premiere project (NOT the one you used to caputre the clips off your camera originally) and import them all into that.

    IMPORTANT: When you create this NEW project, make sure you don't use the preset you normally would for the HV30 (HDV 1080i30 (60i)), but rather HDV 1080p24.

    Once this new project opens, import all of the AVI files you rendered from After Effects. If the audio doesn't appear, you probably forgot to check the box while rendering in AE (see above).

    NOTE: You have to render the AVI files when you add them to a sequence in Premiere. But, once they're rendered in Premiere, smooth as glass, even if you slow them down by, say, 50%. It's gorgeous. To achieve silky smooth slow mo, simply right-click on a clip in a sequence, and slow it down 50% -- no need to use the fancy Timewarp effect or anything else, especially since Timewarp takes about 6 months to render for a clip of any significant length.

    ALSO NOTE: If any clips are the wrong aspect ratio in Premiere, right-click on them in Premiere, select Interpret Footage, and make sure it says HD Anamorphic (1.333). If it doesn't, change the setting to that.

    Oh yeah, do NOT de-interlace when exporting footage after removing pulldown.

    There you have it.

    If there is anything wrong with this, let me know, but it seems to work well. Here is an example:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j96J3kk-68U"]YouTube- Winter Wonderland[/ame]

  3. #478
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    Default quick question about editing software needed to remove pulldown

    Just wondering ... can I remove pulldown/deinterlace with Sony Vegas Platnum 6.0? (the cheap version)? Or do I need the pro version?

    If that's the case, I think I'll just get Neoscene.

  4. #479
    Director of Photography drapeama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonne View Post
    If that's the case, I think I'll just get Neoscene.
    I'd say it would be easier with neoscene and CineForm .avi codec as this version of Vegas is a bit old now...
    ...and as i remmember older NLE version had some issues working with mpeg-2 video streams.
    Last edited by drapeama; 2010 February 16th at 20:10.
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

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    Senior Member Robehgo14's Avatar
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    Okay so now I'm confused, So if I am working on a short film, I film it in 24p. I do NOT need to do the pulldown removal process if it's ultimately going to be on the big screen??

  6. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robehgo14 View Post
    Okay so now I'm confused, So if I am working on a short film, I film it in 24p. I do NOT need to do the pulldown removal process if it's ultimately going to be on the big screen??
    If you have an HV40 and record in 24p, you do not need to do pulldown removal. In your editor, set your project as 24p. This can then be transfered to film if required.

    If you have an HV30 or HV20 and your record in PF24 (24p in 60i), you will need to remove pulldown if you intend to transfer to film.

  7. #482
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    Default HELP

    Quote Originally Posted by wkalkhof View Post
    Tons of people have been posting alleged "step-by-step" instructions for removing pulldown, but they leave out TONS of details that are absolutely essential to get things to come out right.

    By trial and error and by pulling out tufts of hair due to missing critical details and settings, here is what I ended up with for using both Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 and After Effects to remove pulldown from HDV24 footage shot with my HV30. If you don't have Premiere CS3 and AE, I don't know what to tell you, but perhaps some clues in what I have to say will help.

    This always works for me:

    First, as others have pointed out in various places, removing pulldown is ONLY necessary when you filmed in HDV24 mode (HDV30 is okay as is) AND when you're exporting for the web. If your final destination is TV, you don't need to do this. But if you fail to do this and your video is destined for the web, you may notice some "herky jerkiness," especially with slow mo shots and fast-moving shots. If you have the HV40 camera, I don't think what I'm saying applies either.

    Anyway, the workflow, once you get it down, is pretty easy. I create a new project for my HV30 in Adobe Premiere (using the preset HDV 1080i30 (60i)) and capture all of my clips. IMPORTANT: If you recorded your clips separately (by hitting the record button, stopping, hitting the record button, stopping, etc.) you ABSOLUTELY NEED to capture these clips separately in Premiere. Do not try to caputre footage of this nature as one long clip. It won't work for removing pulldown. In Premiere you have to capture the clips truly separately, and each clip you capture has to be just that clip (NO overlap)! That is, you cannot have some of the previous clip at the beginning of the one you're capturing or some of the subsequent clip at the end. Use in/out automatic capture in Premiere to make life easier.

    Once you've captured your clips in Premiere, close that program and open After Effects. Once AE is open, go to File-->Project Settings and make sure the Timecode Base is set to 24 fps. Next, import all of your clips into AE (go to File-->Import). NOTE: I sometimes get errors when I try to import many clips at one time. To get around this, just import one clip at a time.

    Now, once you've got your clips imported into AE, you need to right-click on EACH one and select Interpret Footage-->Main. In this window, click on "Guess 3:2 pulldown" and also make sure you've got the following settings:

    Conform to rate: 29.97
    Separate fields: Upper field first
    Pixel aspect ratio: HDV 1080/DVCPRO HD 720 (1.33)

    I'm not real sure about that last one, but it seems to work.

    Remember, you have to do the above for EACH clip.

    Once you've done this to all of your clips, create a new composition (Composition-->New Composition) and use the following settings:

    Width: 1920
    Height: 1080
    Pixel Aspect Ratio: HDV 1080/DVCPRO HD 720 (1.33)
    Frame Rate: 23.976

    Okay, now what I do is I create a new, separate composition for EACH clip. Also, make sure the time length of the composition (in composition settings) matches the time length of the corresponding clip.

    Once you've created compositions for each of your clips, you'll see all of the compositions (along with all of your clips) in the Project window (upper left-hand part of the screen).

    Double-click on the first composition you created and then drag the corresponding clip into it. Then double-click on the next composition your created and drag the corresponding clip into it. Repeat this for all of your compositions and their respective clips.

    When you've done all that, add your compositions to the Render Queue. For rendering each clip, I choose "Best Settings" for the Render Settings and "Lossless" for the Output Module. You can click on the blue file name next to "Output To:" to see where it is going to put the exported file. You can change the directory then if you want.

    Now click on the Render button and wait. This can take a while. Hopefully you have a six pack.

    FYI, if you want audio with your exported clips, click on "Lossless" (in blue) next to Output Module and make sure the "Audio Output" box at the bottom is checked. The default, I believe, is that it is not. Very inconvenient and annoying. I sometimes forget, and nothing aggravates me more.

    Anyway, once all of your clips have rendered, you'll create a BRAND NEW Adobe Premiere project (NOT the one you used to caputre the clips off your camera originally) and import them all into that.

    IMPORTANT: When you create this NEW project, make sure you don't use the preset you normally would for the HV30 (HDV 1080i30 (60i)), but rather HDV 1080p24.

    Once this new project opens, import all of the AVI files you rendered from After Effects. If the audio doesn't appear, you probably forgot to check the box while rendering in AE (see above).

    NOTE: You have to render the AVI files when you add them to a sequence in Premiere. But, once they're rendered in Premiere, smooth as glass, even if you slow them down by, say, 50%. It's gorgeous. To achieve silky smooth slow mo, simply right-click on a clip in a sequence, and slow it down 50% -- no need to use the fancy Timewarp effect or anything else, especially since Timewarp takes about 6 months to render for a clip of any significant length.

    ALSO NOTE: If any clips are the wrong aspect ratio in Premiere, right-click on them in Premiere, select Interpret Footage, and make sure it says HD Anamorphic (1.333). If it doesn't, change the setting to that.

    Oh yeah, do NOT de-interlace when exporting footage after removing pulldown.

    There you have it.

    If there is anything wrong with this, let me know, but it seems to work well. Here is an example:

    YouTube- Winter Wonderland

    When I did this, my video files went from 10GB to 126GB?!?!?!?!!?What happened?!?!

  8. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robehgo14 View Post
    When I did this, my video files went from 10GB to 126GB?!?!?!?!!?What happened?!?!
    Going from a compressed MPEG to an uncompressed AVI is what happened...

  9. #484
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    Just a heads-up to anyone with a missing AVS file problem.

    I was having a weird issue where I would run the batch file without errors, but no AVS file was created for each video; only MP2 and D2V files appeared. After experimenting on numerous things, I found that if I moved the directory containing the movie files into the root folder of my hard drive and removed any spaces from the folder name, the AVS file would be created correctly. Hope this saves someone else some time and frustration.

  10. #485
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    Gotta be honest - this is pretty rediculous. I was sent to this sticky to learn how to fix my 24p footage and find 20 pages with multiple ways of doing it, each claiming to be better than the last. Is it really this difficult? Im using Sony Vegas and After Effects. If it's this difficult to fix this footage, then I'll just shoot in another format. Can someone please explain what the latest 2012 method of removing pulldown is?!

  11. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielhv View Post
    Im using Sony Vegas and After Effects. Can someone please explain what the latest 2012 method of removing pulldown is?!
    Khaver's Batch 3:2 Pulldown Remover basically automates the 'freeware' method mentioned at the beginning of this thread.

  12. #487
    Director of Photography drapeama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielhv View Post
    Im using Sony Vegas and After Effects.
    Same here. Vegas is nice to cut and edit, but don't try to add some nice titles and do a great color correction. On the other side, you can do pretty much everything using After Effects, render in intermediate format and edit back in Vegas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Bien View Post
    Khaver's Batch 3:2 Pulldown Remover basically automates the 'freeware' method mentioned at the beginning of this thread.
    I use the other version, the Batch Intermediate Creator, which is just awesome to convert the .mov files to .avi which are simply just as easy as HDV to edit, while being just as the same bitrate/quality than the original files.
    I DO IT BECAUSE I CAN. I CAN BECAUSE I WANT TO. I WANT TO BECAUSE YOU SAID I COULDN'T.

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