Canon HF S10 + HDMI 1.3 = x.v.Color

[lordtangent]

I was reading over the specifications for the HF S10 and it's got some pretty exciting improvements that popped right out at me:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...ModelDetailAct

1. 24Mbps AVCHD
2. HDMI 1.3 and x.v.Color

I'm not sure how the stuff will be recorded to take advantage of the x.v.Color feature. But if it has the right recording style in AVCHD it could really help squeeze a lot more though the 8-bit pipe. As Anyone who has been around here a while knows, I'm obsessed with squeezing as much dynamic range out of these little toys as possible. So any improvements in that area get me all excited.

I wonder if the Black Magic Intensity is upgradeable to HDMI 1.3 (I have one) If that is the case it could mean some interesting improvements to direct HDMI capture.

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

It would take the BlackMagic to become an express card in a laptop for me to consider it. Taking with me a whole PC on location is just impossible. And if I do have the ability to take with me a whole PC and have a crew to carry it and set it up, I better get a better camera anyway, not a consumer one.

$1500 for the HF-S camera, $1500 for a good laptop and external drive, $1000 for Cineform 4k that does 4:2:2, and $500 for a laptop HDMI card means that I could instead get a good prosumer camera and not need any of that sh*t along all day...

[lordtangent]

Reasonable logic except your numbers are all wrong. And what if I had an Intensity already and used it for other stuff (like digitizing old analog tapes and monitoring when editing)

[jabloomf1230]

I have an Intensity Pro and the card's firmware is upgraded every time you upgrade the drivers for the card. Even with the latest firmware, the Intensity Pro does not support native 1080i/24p input over HDMI (at least there's no option to do so), so my guess is that it presently doesn't support HDMI 1.3. It wouldn't hurt for you to email Blackmagic Design and ask them if the Intensity Pro will eventually support either the the HF S10's HDMI 1.3 output or HV40's native 24p mode. My guess is that if BMD sensed enough interest, they would produce a new model of the Intensity to handle the new camcorders.

[Ian-T]

It's just a matter of time I say.

[dbattle]

It would take the BlackMagic to become an express card in a laptop for me to consider it. Taking with me a whole PC on location is just impossible. And if I do have the ability to take with me a whole PC and have a crew to carry it and set it up, I better get a better camera anyway, not a consumer one.

$1500 for the HF-S camera, $1500 for a good laptop and external drive, $1000 for Cineform 4k that does 4:2:2, and $500 for a laptop HDMI card means that I could instead get a good prosumer camera and not need any of that sh*t along all day...

EXCUSE ME BUT ON YOUR VIDEO OF THE theme park did you use and hv 20? Did you color correct it or is that right off the tape? I really like the shots looking up at the rides against the sky, the colors were saturated but in a very stark kind of way, if that makes sense.
sorry if this is off topic,

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

Yes, I always color grade my footage. I shoot in Neutral Color setting, and then color grade during post.

[lordtangent]

I have an Intensity Pro and the card's firmware is upgraded every time you upgrade the drivers for the card. Even with the latest firmware, the Intensity Pro does not support native 1080i/24p input over HDMI (at least there's no option to do so), so my guess is that it presently doesn't support HDMI 1.3. It wouldn't hurt for you to email Blackmagic Design and ask them if the Intensity Pro will eventually support either the the HF S10's HDMI 1.3 output or HV40's native 24p mode. My guess is that if BMD sensed enough interest, they would produce a new model of the Intensity to handle the new camcorders.

I capture 24p stuff all the time with my Intensity. It's wrapped in 60i, just as on tape. The major difference is of course that it's:

1. Full raster (1920x1080)
2. 4:2:2 (rather than interlaced 4:2:0... which is terrible)
3. Uncompressed and hence undamaged by HDV compression.

I wrote a set of basic scripts to automate removing the 3:2 pulldown while keeping the footage in YCbCr color space though-out the process ( no damage to the color due to funny color space round trips)

If you don;t feel like going to that much effort you can just use Cineform to either capture or process your footage.

[dbattle]

Lord,
I was just thinking about cineform, can converting HDV footage to the cineform 4;2;2 format really help footage which has already been captured in 4:1:1, the compression has already happended right? Isn't the damage done already?

[lordtangent]

Most of the damage is already done. (Meaning your first generation recording will never be as good as if it was uncompressed to begin with) But if you need to render any "intermediate" files to disk and reload them as part of your post work flow, 4:2:2 and higher bit depths (Cineform is now full time 10 bit if I'm not mistaken?) will help keep the video from getting too much generation loss. It's like in the old analog days and "bumping" a tape up to a higher quality format for post. It reduced the tape to tape generation loss and the final output was never worse than the original recording as a result.

Remember, Digital DOES NOT EQUAL "Lossless". So bumping up to a higher quality "lossy" format still has value at times.

ON a side note: My main aversion to HDV is the INTERLACED 4:2:0, which while not really as bad as 4:1:1 in a lot of ways, does have it's own specific artifact which is really a bear to deal with in post. Cross that with 3:2 pulldown in that wacky interlaced chroma sub-sampling scheme and you REALLY have a mess on your hands. Actually, it's a miracle it works at all. It really bears testament to how un-picky our eyes are that it's so hard to spot on regular continuous tone imagery. But computers are not usually as forgiving when you need to do stuff like pull keys or do motion tracking.

[jabloomf1230]

I capture 24p stuff all the time with my Intensity. It's wrapped in 60i, just as on tape. ...

Sorry, I think that you misunderstood me. HDMI 1.3 has native 1080/24p, as part of the specifications. I was just pointing out that the Intensity does not show this option (and never has), so it most likely doesn't support HDMI 1.3. I capture the HV20/30 60i "wrapped" 24p all the time with HDLink and the Intensity Pro.