60i to 24p workflow for Mac/Final Cut Pro

[David]

JES Deinterlacer
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html#DEI

This is a free tool which will not only remove the pulldown, but has a setting to automatically detect the cadence. This is good news since the frustrating problem with the HV20's cadence is that it's different for every shot you get. Auto-detection means that you don't have to go through every clip, one by one, to figure out which frames are AA and which are BC etc


This will work with your already captured files using either AIC or Final Cut Pro's HDV Firewire Basic setting.

• Go to "input" and select the footage you'd like to convert.
  
• Put checks in the boxes for: "Top field first" and "video range"
  
• In the "Project" tab select "Inverse Telecine" from the drop down menu. Then check "Detect Cadence Breaks" and "Output frame rate 23.976"
  
• In the "Output" tab, check "Progressive" and do a "Direct" output with "Photo-JPEG" as the compressor.

I don't claim to be an expert with this application and there are all kinds of other things it can do as well. It would be great if people could do their own tests with this and tell us all what seems to work best or if there's anything confusing or problematic with the above workflow


Thanks to the JES author for the program and Hal Snook for being the first one to bring it to my attention.

[neocastillo]

Just out of curiosity why use the "Photo-JPEG" setting on the final output? Wouldn't HDV or AIC be a better choice? Could you please explain why you chose "Photo-JPEG"?

[Hal Snook]

Just out of curiosity why use the "Photo-JPEG" setting on the final output? Wouldn't HDV or AIC be a better choice? Could you please explain why you chose "Photo-JPEG"?

Photo-JPEG is about on par with AIC. They're both intraframe codecs. The latest version of JES Deinterlacer does both Photo-JPEG and AIC, so you can take your pick.

HDV is an interframe codec, not ideal for editing, and recompressing to HDV will result in a visible loss in quality (each time you make a change to HDV, such as changing frame rates, or just plain editing, it has to be recompressed).

[potholeskinny]

Gee.. I thought this thread was about "60i to 24p workflow for Mac/Final Cut Pro" ???

[Mal]

Gee.. I thought this thread was about "60i to 24p workflow for Mac/Final Cut Pro" ???

Your post is in regard to many comments made in this thread being about the Mac vs. PC issue.
That debate can [and probably should] continue, but it might be best if it's contained within its own walls,
so I took the liberty now to move all Mac vs. PC posts to their own thread, right here:
http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=274

Hope that is acceptable to all.

[Brett A. Noe]

Very nice, David. Far easier than the Cinema Tools method!

[neocastillo]

Yes this method works perfectly for me as well.

[rsovitzky]

So where might this (JES) fit in with iMovie? If I shoot a clip in 24P on the HV20, and want to edit with iMovie, should I use JES first? That is, after Importing with iMovie? If so, do I still use the Photo-Jpeg output? Would I eventually (after edit) export from iMovie into something else - like QT?

I'm new at this so don't laugh.

Rick

[neocastillo]

I don't think that JES is an answer for iMovie users. iMovie does not support 24p footage. If iMovie is all you have you should record your footage in 1080i @60fps, this is the HD format iMovie is capable of.

[rsovitzky]

neocastillo,

Please elaborate. I thought the bugaboo with P24 and iMovie was the pull down stuff and cadence (I don't have a good grasp on those concepts yet). So I thought letting JES 'get rid of that' would remove the obstacles for iMovie. What am i still missing?

Rick

[mastroiani]

Hi, what would be the best method aputring footage with this workflow? I captuered footage via HDV 1080P24 setting and it seems to work fine. Is there a method that would retain better quality. Since JES Deinterlacer can output AIC or Photo JPEG files does it really matter if I first capture the footage via HDV 1080P24 or AIC or any other similar codec?

Thanks a lot,

M

[mastroiani]

I don't think it matters whether you have JPEG or HDV codec when workin in Fincal Cut. Whether rendering or simply cutting the footage Final Cut doesn't touch the original files. Only when you output the original files then FCP renders them, so the process happens only once. So, the discussion about the codecs specifically for editing work flow doesn't really matter.

[directore]

well this is nice and all except that this utility doesn't work with stream files *.m2t Had to convert it first to something else.

[malacca73]

That'll give you something other than an .m2t file to work with. Many export options that will work with JES Deinterlacer.

Seems like a pretty straightforward workflow for Macs is:

1. Capture footage using Apple's DVHSCap utility into a .m2t stream
2. Convert .m2t stream into something else (AIC, Photo JPEG, whatever)
3. Use JES Deinterlacer to change frame rate, etc. as described above.

I don't have an HV20 yet, but I am pining for one. I found a .m2t stream that someone posted online from his HV20 that I was able to mess around with.

[mastroiani]

As far as I know, if you already have Final Cut Studio 2 it will batch convert it via Compressor (I think) and you don't have to worry about the third party software.

[tkmslee]

I tried the JES thing and it seemed to have worked for me:

http://www.leetj.com/videos/downtown.mov

It's jerky if you play it in the browser so download it first. Someone told me that it still looks like 30p and not 24p. I followed the instructions though...what do you think?

[malacca73]

I tried the JES thing and it seemed to have worked for me:

http://www.leetj.com/videos/downtown.mov

It's jerky if you play it in the browser so download it first. Someone told me that it still looks like 30p and not 24p. I followed the instructions though...what do you think?

Did you forget to change the framerate in JES Deinterlacer? QT Player says it's 29.97 fps. My MacBook claims to be playing it at the correct framerate, but it looks a bit jerky. Viewing it in VLC was a bit better, but it's still not terribly smooth. Not sure if this is because my MacBook can't handle it or not.

[malacca73]

As far as I know, if you already have Final Cut Studio 2 it will batch convert it via Compressor (I think) and you don't have to worry about the third party software.

I'm going to be blowing all my money on the HV20, so no cash left for Final Cut Studio. Do you think Apple will do us all a favor and have iMovie (or at least Final Cut Express) handle 24p stuff in its next iteration? Please....

[jimbaran]

I'm going to be blowing all my money on the HV20, so no cash left for Final Cut Studio. Do you think Apple will do us all a favor and have iMovie (or at least Final Cut Express) handle 24p stuff in its next iteration? Please....

I have Final Cut Express as well. Can it be done with FCE?.... Please help.

Anyone can post 24p workflow with FCE?.... help? I am brand new with this.

Thank you.

[Jon Thomas]

[*]In the "Project" tab select "Inverse Telecine" from the drop down menu. Then check "Detect Cadence Breaks" and "Output frame rate 23.976"
[*]In the "Output" tab, check "Progressive" and do a "Direct" output with "Photo-JPEG" as the compressor.[/LIST]
It won't let me pick Inverse Telecine--that option is greyed out--help! What am I doing wrong? Should I not be selecting a Quicktime version of it?

[rur]

I am really confused now!! Should or should I not buy this HV20? I am specifically looking for 24P with this camera. So can someone help me here. First of all I do need FCP not FCE like I already have? Should you do the 23.976 pulldown after the whole movie is edited completely? Is this true for titles/etc? Do titles/credits fall into the pulldown area too, and do they have to be converted to 24P too? And once this JES Deinterlacer is added will FCP recognize it automatically once you start to do the pulldown??
Please help, I am a 24P and FCP beginner looking to make a documentary this summer.

[DangerZone]

You don't need Final Cut Pro to use this program. You just need a program that will capture the video into an MOV format. It's a standalone program that will automatically detect the cadence of the 60i stream and convert it to 24P (in geek speak: change the captured 29.97 quicktime movie to 23.976 photo jpeg). For all of you worried about quality loss, don't worry. It looks FANTASTIC!

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE FIND, DAVE! THIS PROGRAM ROCKS!!!

[JDigital]

You don't need Final Cut Pro to use this program. You just need a program that will capture the video into an MOV format. It's a standalone program that will automatically detect the cadence of the 60i stream and convert it to 24P (in geek speak: change the captured 29.97 quicktime movie to 23.976 photo jpeg). For all of you worried about quality loss, don't worry. It looks FANTASTIC!

Do you or anyone else know of any free programs out there to capture the video into an MOV format that can be used in JES??

If not, do you know of a way to get a working MOV file from iMovie or FCE (which was captured in either program, I know neither will work as an editor in 24p, but just to capture) and then to be used in JES?

[Charles Gerungan]

Do you or anyone else know of any free programs out there to capture the video into an MOV format that can be used in JES??

Doesn't MPEG Streamclip do that? Just suggesting here; haven't used it. I practically don't get out of FCS2.

[JDigital]

Doesn't MPEG Streamclip do that? Just suggesting here; haven't used it. I practically don't get out of FCS2.

Well from my research, that is part of it. For anyone else struggling with the same issue I am, the best way to capture (correct me if I am wrong, I am new at this) is by using: DVHSCap. (You can get it by installing the Firewire SDK 20 from Apple. It will be within the package.) Then you bring your m2t file into MPegStreamClip to make it a MOV file, and then do your pulldown using JES.

That is what I gathered. Please correct me if I am wrong.