24F and Premiere Pro editing question

[Dleo]

I hope this thread isnt dead!!!

Okay, I shot in the 24f mode, and now I'm regreting it.

I have about 20 tapes of a film I shot, most are full 60 minutes.

I now need to edit this into the movie. I'm using Premiere Pr cs3 i have encore and After effects.

What I'd like to do is capture my footage in premiere, and make my own clips by starting and stopping the capture for each tape. I know I have to use camera as monitor.

Then I want to edit the whole thing in a HDV setting say 1080 60! or whatever will work with the footage I have.

Then once it's a complete edited film -- I'd like to go in and remove the pulldown, and resync the audio.

Then burn to a BlueRay and SD DVD from that. Is this possible, and if not is there a better way???

Any help with this would be great.

Dleo

[Dleo]

oops forgot to mention there is some green screen compositing going on in a few scenes.

Interior of car, and outside is greenscreen, background plate is shot in 24f as well.

dleo

[Dleo]

IS THIS THREAD DEAD????

Or maybe just needs a "BUMP"

[Lunchbox]

Your posts are any tips or tricks or anything related. It's your questions about 24F (not sure if you really mean 24F or PF24). I am moving your posts to an individual thread.

[Dleo]

Hey what's up.

It's pf24.

[Lunchbox]

PF24 is not 24F. They are different.

For PF24 editing, there're already workflow describe in the 24p workflow subforum. It's advisable to remove pulldown before performing your editing.

[Dleo]

I'm confused -- sorry.

I shoot the HV20 I used the 24p setting in the camera. I thought that was canon's f24. but I'm not sure.

dleo

[Lunchbox]

In HV20, the frame rate mode is PF24. it's not 24F. 24F is used in other high end Canon camcorders such as XH-A1. 24F video is 24 fps. PF24 is 29.97 fps. So you need to remove pulldown to get the real 24 fps stream from the video. Please read the FAQ question 11 for more info

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=3058

[Dleo]

I read that thread,

What I was trying to ask. Is it feasible to edit my entire film in a 60I HDV preset, then after the whole thing is edited, can I remove the pulldown.

And If I do that -- will it give me any isssues I should watch out for.

I have compositing, and audio issue I will have to work with in Soundbooth, and after effects.

My final output will be to Blu-ray, and DVD.

Dleo

[Rumpelgeist]

It seems that 24F is what Sony calls Native Progressive mode. The only difference is that Canon camcorders use interlaced sensors, but on tape both NP and F video are the same. I conclude it from this Sony's phrase: "Native Progressive Recording has been called 24F/25F/30F in some camcorders, while actually using interlace CCD imagers." One time I thought that 24F is recorded as PsF. Seems that I was mistaken, it is recorded as progressive. Even if it is recorded as PsF, what fed from FireWire is true progressive just like NP.

P.S. Both 24F as well as 24P NP are 23.98 fps, just like most non-pro videocams.

[Lunchbox]

There is a thread talks about removing pulldown after editing

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=14476

[Dleo]

Okay, I read all the threads.

But What I'm not sure about is which way is best to go, and what will work the best.

Any thoughts would be very welcome.

I have a lot of compositing to do, and I'm not sure of the best way to do it. I've done quite a bit of compositing on MiniDV just not with footage on my Hv20.

Dleo

[Lunchbox]

I avoided 24p/f. 30p/f works best for me. No need to deal with pulldown. It's already progressive ready for computer and web playback. No need to insert pulldown back to stream to print back to tape and author DVD.

If you still insist sticking with 24p/f, you can either use the free (hv20pulldown.exe) or the fee (cineform production) way.

[Rumpelgeist]

But What I'm not sure about is which way is best to go, and what will work the best.

If you have read these threads, the recipe for the best workflow is there: do pulldown removal first, then edit.

[Rumpelgeist]

I avoided 24p/f. 30p/f works best for me.

24F is native progressive. The only reason to avoid it is if you wanted to intercut with the PF24 from the HV30, right?

[MAGICOFPYRO]

can't remember exactly but I think I read somewhere if you remove pulldown from your project after all your editing it removes frames from your transitions also , may create problems, I could be wrong, I've always done it before bringing it into your NLE,
also i think it would be much easier to just capture the whole tape (if you have harddrive space) and just make sub-clips from the footage, if you just capture scenes by starting and stopping tape you may find you need additional time for the scene when your editing.

[Andy Olson]

I second the removing pulldown and editing at 24p. It will save you headaches later and give you the best starting point for editing. Your files will be smaller and progressive and the motion effects you do will be at 24p.

To remove the pulldown use a program like JesDeinterlacer, TMPGenc or Dvfilm Maker since it's not a normal pulldown that Premiere can remove.

Best,
Andy

[Dleo]

Removing pulldown on 20 tapes would just take way to long!!!!!!!!!!

I've decided to capture everything(20, 63-minute tapes almost full) at 1080 60I, Then edit the the whole film with cuts only. When I have a really good cut that I like -- I'm going to remove the pulldown, Then put the pulled down clips into a 24p timeline, and Add Transitions, and color correction, color grading, and compositing in AFTER EFFECTS.

Then burn the film to BLU-RAY, and DVD disk, and finally a Web version.

I've captured about 10 of those tapes, and when there all captured I will start editing.

I will let you know how it worked for me.

Dleo

[Lunchbox]

24F is native progressive. The only reason to avoid it is if you wanted to intercut with the PF24 from the HV30, right?

I avoided 24 fps because my target output is always DVD. All my footage will be used in a slo-mo highlights video too. 30P/F works just fine the way I like it.

[Dleo]

I avoided 24 fps

Now I wish I avoided it as well.

Shooting 24p on DV worked much better, and I didn't think it was going to be different. OOPSS!!!! I use premiere pro cs3, and I'm disappointed that I can't just capture 24p to a timeline.

I do have one more question though.

What about exporting to BLU-Ray, and DVD do I have to remove the pulldown at all -- for those mediam??

In Eugenia's tutorial she says the TV does it for you?

dleo

[Rumpelgeist]

I avoided 24 fps because my target output is always DVD.

Still don't get it. 24p works for DVDs just fine.

All my footage will be used in a slo-mo highlights video too. 30P/F works just fine the way I like it.

You are slowing down 30 fps? Or are you saying that you shoot 30P/F with one cam and 60i with another and then slow footage from the latter down to 30p?

[MAGICOFPYRO]

if you don't remove pulldown you'll have issues whenever there is fast movement in the shot or if your dissolving in between clips, here is video I shot that doesn't have pulldown removed, if you watch the video you may not see it too bad but when you slow it down you really notice the extra artifacts.


[ame="http://vimeo.com/1801797"]PYRO'S DIY DOLLY TEST on Vimeo[/ame]

here is a screen grab to show what I mean:

[Dleo]

yep!!!

Thanks for posting this film.

I will remove pulldown. lol!!!

Nice dolley, it's compact, and seems to work very well. Did you make that yourself, if you did tell me how -- please. If you didn't tell me where you bought it from. please!!

It looks like it would fit in my trunck lol!!!

It looks professional as well -- AGAIN NICE LOOKING RIG -- THE DOLLEY AND CAMERA LOOK GREAT BY THE WAY

dleo

[Dleo]

MAGICOFPYRO,

I found your post about the dolly.

VERY NICE WORK!!!

I also saw your DOF adapter. Man, you built that stuff literally out of nothing. VERY NICE WORK!!!!

dleo

[MAGICOFPYRO]

MAGICOFPYRO,

I found your post about the dolly.

VERY NICE WORK!!!

I also saw your DOF adapter. Man, you built that stuff literally out of nothing. VERY NICE WORK!!!!

dleo

thank you, a lot of trial and error, but I think I got it now!